Young Guns II recording period

But how much of it is true and how much do we believe to be true? There's documented evidence of Jon asking a producer for the demo of Saturday Night...to sound like Soul Asylum. Theyve always tried to appeal to the younger generation, the difference is everything past 2000 (not 2012) it's been more blatent with less of their own style in the mix. They've ALWAYS been putting themslves in a mass produced box, that didn't just start.

"There is documented evidence of Jon requesting the demo of Saturday Night". This leads me to believe that they don't have the complete set of demos, which is understandable when you consider Bon Jovi's philosophy in the '80s and '90s was quite different. It was more of a 'friends' dynamic, so to speak.

This reminds me of something I read during the time when the deluxe edition of New Jersey was being prepared. If I recall correctly, it was Obie who was asked about the demos of Rosie and Does Anybody, and he mentioned that they had been lost in different hands. On the other hand, as I mentioned earlier, the philosophy was different. They came together to create a more artistic production process. Naturally, the market demanded reaching the masses, but what I mean is that I'm not sure if it was John Shanks or Jon Bon Jovi who gave them that sound, intending to make them look younger, which sometimes doesn't quite fit. We can see this in the Backstreet Boys, lol.

The issue wouldn't be that, the problem is that the tales of the grandfather usually don't grab the great-grandson's attention. I'm not sure if what I'm trying to say is a bit clearer now.

"There is documented evidence of Jon requesting the demo of Saturday Night". This leads me to believe that they don't have the complete set of demos, which is understandable when you consider Bon Jovi's philosophy in the '80s and '90s was quite different. It was more of a 'friends' dynamic, so to speak. -- I'm not sure what you mean by this. I gave an example of Jon making an effort to sound like what's popular, isn't that what we're talking about? It's the same thing. Granted the final result wound up sounding much less like Runaway Train but it's a clear cut case of Jon wanting to sound young.

It's Jon that wants them to sound like other band, not Shanks. Shanks helps get him there but Jon has the final say. Shanks didn't produce the 4 "new" tracks for HAND, Novocaine's melody is very close to My Chemical Romance, and Story/Last Cigarette have such a Killers feel with that snyth sound that was everywhere in the early to mid 2000s.

There's a great anecdote from Bob Rock about how making KTF was a much different experience than New Jersey because it was all about crafting hits and big singles and radio songs. We can't give that a pass and say it was all about the art just because his voice was in better shape and the final product was better. For me loving this band is a struggle to be okay with some things and let other things go and it's touuuugh.

I want to apologize. I think I might've been a bit rushed when reading through the text, and it seems I got a bit mixed up. Nevertheless, I'm on board with what you're saying; Shanks is the producer and takes cues from Jon. Just like you, there are times when it's really tough to wrap your head around certain things as a fan, and it can be downright disheartening. For me, that was definitely the case with "This House Is Not For Sale" and the whole ordeal of 2020.

Totally, same page! But I'll defend the original track listing of 2020 and it being a good album with my dying breath haha.

You'll probably have to haha. But it's a weird album for me in terms of that I like parts of it (will forever hate Limitless and dislike the overhyped Beautiful Drug) and I have a good time listening to when it's randomly. At the same time, I never have the craving to go back to it in any way after that again. With THINFS, I listened to it heavily for two or three months before it died. With this one, I have it on like 2 or 3 times a year, have a decent listen and never feel that I wanna put it on again the next day. Something I rarely experience. Maybe also down to the mood of the album.

Do I have any other option? haha. 'This House' was, for me, an album that was overly inclusive, to the point where I only connected with the song 'I Will Drive You Home.' It's strange; it's not even on my Spotify playlist where I have all the albums except the last two. As for 2020, I can say that, like you, I can't stand 'Limitless.' It's a song that feels like a mix of Bob Geldof, NSync, and Justin Bieber with forced lyrics. And I'll leave selected: 'Luv Can' and 'Blood In The Water.' 2020 was a like 'Jon for president' it was kinda meh...

What's even on 2020... I still feel DWYC has a good melody, Let It Rain has a very comfy post 2000 vibe to it, Lower The Flag actually pulls off its subject matter rather well, Blood in The Water is very good, the two bonus tracks sound like the better stuff on WAN. Beautiful Drug is okay I guess? The chorus being a note for note copy of a Monkees song was a bit much haha

I get the hate behind it being too political an album but the songs take such a milquetoast stance that it doesn't bother me. I think Lower The Flag's arrangement is brilliant, even though it's just Atlantic City with better production.

And worse vocals