CRUSH vs BOUNCE

Good theory.

My theory is that Shanks after that the album was delayed was busy with others artists, so Parashar was involved as producer of the 4 new songs, but Shanks after the songs were finished has overhaul them because the project started with him as producer.

What makes you think Shanks touched the 4 new songs in any way? There's nothing in the credits to support this. It set off an era with HAND having two producers, LH having two produers and the Greatest Hits new songs having 2 producers, there's nothing to lead me to believe the songs were touched by both producers.

Because Shanks "just heard them" and he thought were ok, so he did nothing practically with the new songs finished, so there is nothing in the new song credits about him for that reason.

With "overhaul them" i meant that, maybe there are better words instead to "overhaul them" to describe it, but hey English it's not my native language.

Maybe the right words were "Shanks took a look at the new 4 songs before the album was officially done and the songs were ok".



My thought is that the HAND project born only with Shanks as producer.



Another my theory probably more truth is that in the new 4 songs Parashar had full control of them and Shanks WASN'T INVOLVED AT ALL.

The Shanks involvement ended with the original HAND tracklist before the end of 2004.

Shanks was involved again just in the LH progect.



So in one of the my theories i think almost like you there's nothing to lead me to believe the songs were touched by both producers.

In my first theory i meant like for example if:

Sometimes you could start one project with someone(exp. original Tracklist HAND with Shanks) and you could after some time continue the project with another one( exp. new 4 songs with Parashar) and when the album is pratically done you could come back to the one you started the project(exp.Shanks) and just let him take a look how the project is evolved.

Yeah I think you're overthinking it. But I also don't know if Shanks was involved in the retooling of the album since it happened concurrently with the 4 new songs. I would assume not.

On my playlist just got My guitar lies bleeding in my arms. Imagine this song with same mixing quality, same choices of production even, but if the question comes, should Jon go for it octave higher in outro chorus or not, is Shanks going to persuade and insist, or is he gonna back of, or even put the point across to Jon?

Disregarding my view that mix can even breathe and have arrangement as it has with Shanks on board, is that song equally good without that outro belting? I am convinced that without it, it's perhaps a solid song, very similar to, let's say, Blood in the water or I don't know Brokenpromiseland, but not nearly good as it is. And sometimes only this is enough to differentiate between vintage and modern Jovi. Jon didn't forget how to write, he just writes quality less frequently. But when it is quality, it is constrained by production choices. Yes, and his own limits, he could never belt exactly like that, but he could be pushed to the edge in studio setting.

Imagine making Jon sore for a week by belting in I'm with you in 2012/2013. It would inspire the rest of the band, it would be a classic, possibly a hit. It'just sad, and of course its' Jon's fault mostly. But also natural, however, we can contemplate what ifs.

Jon's writing has not changed that much, it's his voice that was make or break and now it's just break.
Give Jon the lyrics to Living With The Ghost in 1990 and he'd attack it in a way we'd have it somewhere up with Santa Fe or Blaze of Glory on our list of favourites. Give Jon the lyrics to Santa Fe nowaday and we'd have a soppy low-key ballad in the vein of The Fighter.

I completely agree. Then, perhaps Jon would attack it on his own accord (perhaps). But, today he absolutely needs a producer who would challenge him to do it to be good. Which we don't have. Imagine It's my life (or even Have a nice day, with Shanks just starting with the band), its' Jon at the absolute limit of his possibilites, imagine it without going to this limit, it wouldn't translate well. 2020 I cannot criticize too much, Jon is barely vocal singer at this point, but WAN album I regard as the weakest point, as there are 3 songs that are hit potentials if Jon is forced to go over the board in studio

We spent page upon page talking about how terrible he sounds live nowadays, and now we act like the studio vocals we've been getting for the last 10 years were _not_ the result of Jon being pushed? That these are in his comfort zone? He can't sing that shit live, at least he couldn't (maybe the surgery helped, maybe it didn't)!

He can't sing that live, but he never could (or was willing) basically. That's why I said, I don't mind 2020 abum, even so House album, but take The Circle or especially WAN. Is he not able to go for more on WAN? Not a chance. He is calculating in sounding solid in studio in controlled tonalities, so he could sound not so bad live also. But this is a recipe for disaster, and this is first time I hear it so blatantly. For example, HAND was recorded (single) at the very most of his capability. Singles for WAN (as is the album) was recorded in his safe 2012/2013 register, and it's a shame in my opinion. Yes, he couldn't even replicate recorded I'm With You, and it's a dud. But if he could at least record at best of his capabilities, with also best of band's capabilities, it's a hit and iconic Jovi song in the making. Live? It would be same as it was, and yes distance from recorded would be greater, but at least recorded it would be really good. Travesty to compare, but similar how Prayer was in studio in comparison to most live performances on SWW tour. Imagine calculations then. But then Jovi was not already successful comfortable band of millionaires, but talented, desperate band to score that hit album no matter what. Context counts, maybe we are too hard on them. But Jon wasted too much solid modern songs with not goin to the edge (which is producer's fault, not band's IMO).

I sincerely don't get this approach that happened: let's record it mid-way so I can sing it convincingly live (also mid way)? I'm sure that Jon doesn't recognize that vintage stuff is good in good part precisely because he was pushed to produce on the edge of possible. He even jokes later, why o why he sang key change to Prayer, etc. Well, difference is in these subtle moments most of all, at least regarding quality (not so much popularity, here is relevant what other posters said, band is 60+, it's not realistic to expect hit after hit single).

So... what prompted Who Would You Die For?