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Originally Posted by Supersonic
During the recording of Crush, Britpop had died and boy and girlbands showed up. And instead of trying to take something decent out of it, all they could do was just copy things, thus drum loops were incorporated and so were the extra layers of guitars in drop D.
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Ebbin was hired for Crush precisely because he was good with drumloops and the like. This was in, what, 1999? Plus even Destination Anywhere features them aplenty. For all the ill-led modern influences the band had during that era, drumloops were the one they'd been using for the longest time (even if it dates the album a ton).
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There's a reason why a lot of music fans couldn't take bands like Linkin Park, Kid Rock and Creed seriously as it's all just dumbed down from whatever was out there in the nineties, it really was more of the same. It's also why HAND sounds more inspired and consistent. Somehow, once nu metal died and a small resurrection of real guitar bands took place in America, it resurrected Jon's interest in nowadays music as well.
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Linkin Park were, as weird as that sounds, a highly innovative band that actually utilized loops and effects in creative ways. The reason they were hated is precisely because they did not fit in with the tough guy persona nerdy metalheads and angry bikers alike had developed as part of the genre's identity over the years (they even had a rapper - rap and metal were pretty much opposing tribes in the early 2000s). Yeah, they were never a metal band, but they were lumped in with them, and that challenged the identity of metalheads. They were a pop rock band, but they sure didn't sound like Korn, Limp Bizkit or whoever nu metal act that came before them. They were hated for the same reason emo was hated in punk circles, because it actually was something different. Lots of old scene guys took offense to that, and now both genres are a retro show.
Kid Rock was mostly a rapping crossover act then; the most famous guitar riff he used was sampled; and then a redneck folk singer, so not sure how he fits into that equation. I hear neither Metallica samples nor rapping on Bounce.
And Creed were made fun of because of the lyrics and the religious image mostly - Alter Bridge, who feature the same music writer as Creed, were super respected super quickly.
Plus it's not like Oasis wrote complex songs, or broke new ground. Or is that precisely the reason they never broke big in the US and were over as a cutting edge band by album number three?
I disagree with the approach to use complexity as the reason for musical staying power. Blues has been around for how long? And if that's not mainstream enough for you, EDM is dominating the clubs still.
Also, HAND has Avril Lavigne guitars (not that her first record is in the same musical style as her last, but whatever). Not sure how that is less offensive, but I agree, it fits the band's musical identity better (and just has better songs). There's a Lindsay Lohan song that sounds like a HAND outtake that Shanks co-wrote and produced (it's on Youtube, check "Nobody Till You").
Agreed that TD is just as much a product of its era as Crush and Slippery were. It's just that up to TD, there was a straight line of development with increased maturity, whereas Crush marked a turning point (although stuff like The Hardest Part Is The Night is more serious than anything on Slippery).