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  #1191  
Old 04-30-2024, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Lak View Post
I suspect that part the reason why they went down the rock route more than what you hear in the Power Station demos is because the song that got him the deal (Runaway) was a heavier rockier number
And they made a good decision with it. Just having in mind first two albums (before SWW), with heavier sound they got to tour extensively and develop a loyal core of fans. Something that would elude them if going more pop route, as you live and die by next hit song only.

Of course, things elevated to stardom with SWW and rules of the game changed. But still, the basic formula stayed the same on global level: touring phenomenon with loyal fanbase. Odd global hit here and there ofc helped them to be in best of the best bracket of touring acts, but even without them (as in Always and IML), band would be rather big in touring sense
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  #1192  
Old 04-30-2024, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by blazeofglory View Post
I always find the argument that Richie was the one who brought HEAVINESS to the band a bit strange [...]
It was Alec who came up with this:
“I know how Jon writes and I know how Richie writes,” he says.“I put those two guys together. They should be patting me on the back ‘cos without each other they’d still not be writing right. Jon writes cowboy songs, they all start out that way. He needs Richie to harden ‘em up and turn ‘em into Bon Jovi songs.”
RAW-Mahazone, July 20th, 1994
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  #1193  
Old 04-30-2024, 02:55 PM
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It was Alec who came up with this:
“I know how Jon writes and I know how Richie writes,” he says.“I put those two guys together. They should be patting me on the back ‘cos without each other they’d still not be writing right. Jon writes cowboy songs, they all start out that way. He needs Richie to harden ‘em up and turn ‘em into Bon Jovi songs.”
RAW-Mahazone, July 20th, 1994
This is interesting, it could mean just making them heavier with proper guitar work and solo, but also through structure and build up, etc. However, I would not put much emphasis on Alec's reasoning and opinion what makes song heavy or not while writing it, he probably never was in the room with them through creative process, didn't even record with them for a decade before that interview, and assesment on "cowboy songs" I dislike.

Perhaps if framed different, we could say that Jon has preference now for "serious" songwriting in his eyes, and more probable dull, 4-chords slogs with no vocal dynamics from general audience side. But to generalize it would be unfair, Jon for example wrote Dry County, Blaze of Glory, I Believe, Fear, Something to Believe In, etc. completely alone
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Old 04-30-2024, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bonjovi_cro View Post
Jon for example wrote Dry County, Blaze of Glory, I Believe, Fear, Something to Believe In, etc. completely alone
For all we know, he had help with Blaze of Glory. Aldo Nova wasn't credited (and to this day isn't happy about that), but that main lick certainly isn't Jon's usual style either.

Dry County especially is... Jon did not bring in the full song, he brought in the basic tune. AFAIK Richie lobbied to make it into this epic 9+ minute rock anthem.
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  #1195  
Old 04-30-2024, 03:25 PM
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For all we know, he had help with Blaze of Glory. Aldo Nova wasn't credited (and to this day isn't happy about that), but that main lick certainly isn't Jon's usual style either.

Dry County especially is... Jon did not bring in the full song, he brought in the basic tune. AFAIK Richie lobbied to make it into this epic 9+ minute rock anthem.
Main lick/riff on Blaze of Glory is Jeff Beck, is it not?

I agree about Dry County, or any of those songs, but this is intersection of band work and also producer work. Jon with acoustic guitar on Something To Believe In, Dry County or I Believe would also trend to something like some post-2000 piece when band is not interested and producer is best friend.

I was just making a case that in regards to original writing of lyrics/music, Jon can indeed deliver with non-boring/generic stuff. Same goes for Always or Bed of Roses. Take any hit songwriter or producer of the day, they would never write Bed of Roses in 1991/1992 as it is. But it was only major hit from KTF in the US
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Old 04-30-2024, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by bonjovi_cro View Post
Main lick/riff on Blaze of Glory is Jeff Beck, is it not?

I agree about Dry County, or any of those songs, but this is intersection of band work and also producer work. Jon with acoustic guitar on Something To Believe In, Dry County or I Believe would also trend to something like some post-2000 piece when band is not interested and producer is best friend.

I was just making a case that in regards to original writing of lyrics/music, Jon can indeed deliver with non-boring/generic stuff. Same goes for Always or Bed of Roses. Take any hit songwriter or producer of the day, they would never write Bed of Roses in 1991/1992 as it is. But it was only major hit from KTF in the US
Jeff Beck played the solo. As far as I know, he only played solos. The mojority of guitar work was done by Aldo Nova. He claims he wrote the main lick.
I was surprised that Jon didn't mention him among the people he worked with.
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Aldo Nova - Bright Lights
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  #1197  
Old 04-30-2024, 04:12 PM
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Jeff Beck played the solo. As far as I know, he only played solos. The mojority of guitar work was done by Aldo Nova. He claims he wrote the main lick.
I was surprised that Jon didn't mention him among the people he worked with.
I always thought he also came up with riff. It seems I remember either a video clip or Jon interview saying he wanted Beck to play "sing-along" riff, that kids can then sing to, to be melodic, whatever. Perhaps I changed it for a solo, as I see now rumours that Aldo Nova came with a riff.

Regardless, I would basically never credit a riff creator as a songwriter. Perhaps I'm old-fashioned, but songwriter to me is lyrics/melody of vocals/harmony. Anything else belongs to arrangements phase, regardless of its contribution to elevate song in the end. Is that fair? Perhaps not. But if we go different direction, then Hugh gets probably more credits and royalty for making Prayer a hit song than Jon personally.
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Old 04-30-2024, 04:39 PM
semigoodlooking semigoodlooking is offline
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Does the creator of the riff/solo get a writing credit?

I thought not, but I guess it depends the band. Dry County would exist as a song, lyrics and structure, without Richie's input. Does Richie's input add to the song? Arguably yes, at least for me, but it is not a necessary component of the song. Same for the riff in Blaze. And Alec's comment doesn't make sense, there are plenty of Jon songs with no Richie input that are not cowboy songs in any way.

Jon has many flaws that we can discuss, but trying to discredit his skills as a songwriter is just strange. People saying he would have ended up as a mid-card performer. He may have been content with that starting out, but the reality is the guy wrote hit songs that are good. By the way, Bryan Adams did too, so if Jon had been aiming for that, its cool.
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  #1199  
Old 04-30-2024, 04:51 PM
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Does the creator of the riff/solo get a writing credit?

I thought not, but I guess it depends the band. Dry County would exist as a song, lyrics and structure, without Richie's input. Does Richie's input add to the song? Arguably yes, at least for me, but it is not a necessary component of the song. Same for the riff in Blaze. And Alec's comment doesn't make sense, there are plenty of Jon songs with no Richie input that are not cowboy songs in any way.

Jon has many flaws that we can discuss, but trying to discredit his skills as a songwriter is just strange. People saying he would have ended up as a mid-card performer. He may have been content with that starting out, but the reality is the guy wrote hit songs that are good. By the way, Bryan Adams did too, so if Jon had been aiming for that, its cool.

Agreed. And I'm not sure if its completely fair, the way how songwriting credits are given, but it is how it is, and there are still good reasons for it. It's completely different craft in getting lyrics/harmony/vocal melody to the room versus being great inspired guitar player that plugs in and gets the riff and solo. Both are perhaps needed for great rock band, but it's not the same for songwriting credits.

Regading Jon, I also think that Jon would be happy to have different direction, as he always saw himself as driven pop(ular) figure, no matter the context. Talented songwriter with ear for both hooks and musical landscape changes, brilliant businessman (not only in later days, but most importantly taking management of Bon Jovi after NJ cycle) and distinct and supreme hard rock vocalist in his prime.

But give him another context, like Bryan Adams in his day and age, or Robbie Williams/Lenny Kravitz later, he would be successful either way. Though, this mix with Richie is the sauce, the magic shit.
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Old 04-30-2024, 04:52 PM
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Does the creator of the riff/solo get a writing credit?
Not in Bon Jovi land. In my opinion Richie should absolutely get a writing credit for Dry County. David also said that he came up with the Runaway keyboard riff and that would have gained him a writing credit too in some bands, as it should.
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