Richie Sambora

blazeofglory · #**1201** 04-30-2024, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alphavictim

Richie is a fan of blues music. Jon is a singer/songwriter kinda guy. If Jon wrote a riff, such as In & Out Of Love, it's hardly ever bluesy. Richie's stuff can be very driving, rhythm focused - think Lay Your Hands On Me, which is pure Zep worship, or Homebound Train/Raise Your Hands, which are just a super simple lick but played with balls and distortion.

As he got older and as the times changed, Richie often did more mellow bluesy stuff too. This started on These Days (As My Guitar...; maybe even Prayer 94 or Saturday Night), but stuff as recent as Forever All The Way includes this.

In either case, the guitar does more than just strum basic chords. That's the difference between Legendary and What Do You Got. The pedal point nature of playing licks over changing roots makes for some more interesting harmonic constellations, and for more dissonance as well.

Guitar licks are actually semi prominent in pop music again, especially throwback 2000s vibes with pop punk licks, which at this point typically have some midwestern emo leanings as well, i.e. lots of arpeggios and glissandos. Richie could play that stuff; it's actually pretty close to his style. Of course he doesn't play just like it, but if a producer put him in that context, he'd be fine. Just have him arpeggiate lots of seventh chords and have a strong melody running through, voila.

Oh, I totally agree that Richie brought more melodies, harmonies, rhythm and drive to the songs. His guitar work adds a lot more substance and layers that are missing from the band's output nowadays, but I don't think he was the driving force in bringing a heaviness to the band in the sense of a more hard rock/heavy metal leaning sound, which I often see people insinuating. I think that was mainly just the type of rock music that was popular at any given point throughout the band's career (and the corner of rock music they happened to end up in the 80s due to the kinda bands they went on tour with in the early days and the kinda bands Doc was managing at the time).

Guitar music definitely seems to be making a comeback nowadays, but I don't think it has developed enough of its own identity yet at this point in time for a band like Bon Jovi to hop on the bandwagon. They put out grunge-influenced songs like Hey God and Prostitute in 1995 when grunge was already starting to decline in popularity again and Crush with its Britpop influences came in 2000, also a few years after the big "defining" Britpop records came out.

bonjovi_cro · #**1202** 04-30-2024, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinny

Not in Bon Jovi land. In my opinion Richie should absolutely get a writing credit for Dry County. David also said that he came up with the Runaway keyboard riff and that would have gained him a writing credit too in some bands, as it should.

But should it? And I don't mean this as just being contrary, I'm interested in your opinion. I thought about this topic for a very long time. It's true that it's not very fair for Prayer to be without Hugh, or Dry County without Sambora in credits. However, this is their job, the arrangement, that's why they are the band.

If I remember correctly, David Bowie brought acoustic and lyrics of Let's Dance to his producer and his guitarist. The guitarist basically came up with the riff and the beat that made it worldwide hit. Bowie solely got the credits for both lyrics and music. Again, perhaps not fair? But opposite argument is, there is not even a hint or potential of that hit song if primary creator didn't bring in the studio where two other guys were waiting with beers and burgers. It's their job

blazeofglory · #**1203** 04-30-2024, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faceman

It was Alec who came up with this:
“I know how Jon writes and I know how Richie writes,” he says.“I put those two guys together. They should be patting me on the back ‘cos without each other they’d still not be writing right. Jon writes cowboy songs, they all start out that way. He needs Richie to harden ‘em up and turn ‘em into Bon Jovi songs.”
RAW-Mahazone, July 20th, 1994

Perhaps just my personal interpretation, but I always thought he meant that Richie solidifies the songs Jon writes, gives them proper form and shape and subsequently creates the Bon Jovi sound, not "harden up" in the sense of making them sound heavy.

semigoodlooking · #**1204** 04-30-2024, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonjovi_cro

But should it? And I don't mean this as just being contrary, I'm interested in your opinion. I thought about this topic for a very long time. It's true that it's not very fair for Prayer to be without Hugh, or Dry County without Sambora in credits. However, this is their job, the arrangement, that's why they are the band.

If I remember correctly, David Bowie brought acoustic and lyrics of Let's Dance to his producer and his guitarist. The guitarist basically came up with the riff and the beat that made it worldwide hit. Bowie solely got the credits for both lyrics and music. Again, perhaps not fair? But opposite argument is, there is not even a hint or potential of that hit song if primary creator didn't bring in the studio where two other guys were waiting with beers and burgers. It's their job

Bohemian Rhapsody is a Freddie Mercury song. It has an iconic guitar solo. Not for a second do I think Brian May should have a writing credit for that song.

November Rain is written by Axl Rose and is littered with guitar solos that define the song.

Enter Sandman - like most Metallica songs - has lyrics by Hetfield, music by Hetfield and Ulrich, and arrangement by Ulrich. Kirk Hammet has a credit because he wrote the main riff.

Two different approaches and I don't think either method is wrong. It depends the band and my personal opinion is the song could be completed without the riff/solo.

Thinny · #**1205** 04-30-2024, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semigoodlooking

Two different approaches and I don't think either method is wrong. It depends the band and my personal opinion is the song could be completed without the riff/solo.

Of course it could, but would it be as good?

Runaway without the Keyboard riff is not the same song in my opinion, so David wrote a fundemental part of that songs and got no credit. I'm sure he said that he write the riff for Prayer that Richie later did on the talkbox. Jon already admitted until that was added he didn't think much of Prayer. Again, it's a fundemental part of the song and the song would not be the same without it.

Sure Dry County would still be the same song without the solo, but when a solo alters the actual landscape of the song, which this one does tendfold, then I think there should be a writing credit there. I don't think song writing credits should be just limited to chord progressions when it comes to music. But that's just my opinion.

Keep The Faith bassline? In my opinion that song is nothing without it. But this is where is gets muddy and most bands have an agreement about songwriting. Some just split everything equally. Some have all songwriters getting and equal percent on the credit, so will argue the percentage they receive for each song. You can see why a lot of bands can't be bothered to argue about it and split everything equally.

tobi is an animal · #**1206** 04-30-2024, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonjovi_cro

But should it? And I don't mean this as just being contrary, I'm interested in your opinion. I thought about this topic for a very long time. It's true that it's not very fair for Prayer to be without Hugh, or Dry County without Sambora in credits. However, this is their job, the arrangement, that's why they are the band.

If I remember correctly, David Bowie brought acoustic and lyrics of Let's Dance to his producer and his guitarist. The guitarist basically came up with the riff and the beat that made it worldwide hit. Bowie solely got the credits for both lyrics and music. Again, perhaps not fair? But opposite argument is, there is not even a hint or potential of that hit song if primary creator didn't bring in the studio where two other guys were waiting with beers and burgers. It's their job

I think if someone comes up with a riff that drives the song they should be given a credit as it's words and music that receive a credit. I don't think a guitar solo deserves a songwriting credit though as the song can exist without the solo. If David Bryan came up with that keyboard riff for Runaway he should be given a writing credit. who is this George Karak guy and how much of it was him. Who really knows anything for sure, I've heard stories of jon and richie sifting through boxes of tapes and stealing ideas. Bands like Poison or Van Halen would just list all 4 members as the writers. Ozzy was given sole credit for writing the Bark At The Moon album. With the Blaze album there isn't any real riffs that drive that album, it's mostly accoustic with jon's melodies. Blaze has a cool intro but the song could exist with out it. A song like Enter Sandman couldn't exist without that main driving riff.

tobi is an animal · #**1207** 04-30-2024, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinny

Of course it could, but would it be as good?

Runaway without the Keyboard riff is not the same song in my opinion, so David wrote a fundemental part of that songs and got no credit. I'm sure he said that he write the riff for Prayer that Richie later did on the talkbox. Jon already admitted until that was added he didn't think much of Prayer. Again, it's a fundemental part of the song and the song would not be the same without it.

Sure Dry County would still be the same song without the solo, but when a solo alters the actual landscape of the song, which this one does tendfold, then I think there should be a writing credit there. I don't think song writing credits should be just limited to chord progressions when it comes to music. But that's just my opinion.

Keep The Faith bassline? In my opinion that song is nothing without it. But this is where is gets muddy and most bands have an agreement about songwriting. Some just split everything equally. Some have all songwriters getting and equal percent on the credit, so will argue the percentage they receive for each song. You can see why a lot of bands can't be bothered to argue about it and split everything equally.

That Keep The Faith bassline sounds a lot like Pain Lies On The Riverside by Live but I don't think Jon was ever sued by anyone in Live.

richiefan95 · #**1208** 04-30-2024, 07:44 PM

https://twitter.com/TheRealSambora/s...R2gdUBKLw&s=19
Jerry maybe has now a problem .....

Jovi98 · #**1209** 04-30-2024, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richiefan95

https://twitter.com/TheRealSambora/s...R2gdUBKLw&s=19
Jerry maybe has now a problem .....

I’m not on Twitter, what happened or what he asked?

semigoodlooking · #**1210** 04-30-2024, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinny

Of course it could, but would it be as good?

Runaway without the Keyboard riff is not the same song in my opinion, so David wrote a fundemental part of that songs and got no credit. I'm sure he said that he write the riff for Prayer that Richie later did on the talkbox. Jon already admitted until that was added he didn't think much of Prayer. Again, it's a fundemental part of the song and the song would not be the same without it.

Sure Dry County would still be the same song without the solo, but when a solo alters the actual landscape of the song, which this one does tendfold, then I think there should be a writing credit there. I don't think song writing credits should be just limited to chord progressions when it comes to music. But that's just my opinion.

Keep The Faith bassline? In my opinion that song is nothing without it. But this is where is gets muddy and most bands have an agreement about songwriting. Some just split everything equally. Some have all songwriters getting and equal percent on the credit, so will argue the percentage they receive for each song. You can see why a lot of bands can't be bothered to argue about it and split everything equally.

Maybe - I guess David - should have a writing credit for Let It Rock because of the intro, or Bad Medicine because of the keyboard riff. My problem is where does it stop. There are loads of riffs that help build the song, they only become iconic of not after the fact. Are we saying any guitar riff automatically gives the player a writing credit? Maybe that works but I am not comfortable with that and would hate it if I wrote a whole song, music, lyrics, and melody and had to give credit for a riff.

But as I said, bands do it differently and there is no right or wrong way. Queen are an example of a band who did sole credits even though their songs are full of iconic musicianship. Of course, they changed that later in their career. Coldplay is a band where one member writes everything but shares the royalties equally with the whole band. Van Halen split the credits when two members were sole writers. Tornado of Souls is widely regarded as one of the best metal solos of all-time. Marty Friedman has no credit for it. Mustaine does for the music.

Nothing wrong with any of the approaches in my opinion.

Richie Sambora

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