So you've ripped it.............

RonJovi · #**161** 03-12-2013, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

Could've fooled me, and probably many others as well.

"you really shouldn't waste your time here". That's pretty obvious. It's not an opinion.

It's a possibility, but not probable. If it was an opinion, you would've said something like "I think", "In my opinion" or "to me this is...". "You really shouldn't waste your time here" isn't an opinion.

This is where your lack of understanding of the English language or attention span is the problem. At least you've accepted the possibility it wasn't an instruction and I'm now telling you it wasn't. Want to move on? I did actually preface that paragraph with "I don't think" as well but I guess you need everything spoonfed to you in order to not misunderstand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

But there you would be wrong. You don't know that. You can't know that. You were talking about a new album, which many think is crap. If that's the case, there are probably a lot of fans who actually think that there are a lot of things they "don't think is very good" that are better than the piece of crap.

How likely do you think it is that I'm wrong though. If you put up a poll on a Bon Jovi message board and said: "What's better - the 1D album or WAN?" What do you think the result would be? Like if you went into a pub in Manchester when United are playing Liverpool, what team would you expect the majority to be supporting?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

Yes, that would be ironic. But the thing is, nothing like that has happened here. In your mind you expected something to happen, you assumed. That doesn't qualify as ironic. Me saying you don't understand irony and you disagreeing isn't ironic. You claiming I judged you when I told you not to judge, isn't ironic. If anything THAT would be hypocritical, which is why I didn't do that.

Irony needs a commonly agreed on result for it to work. Your own expectations that are not met don't create irony.

No you're wrong. If you say, "You have no idea how to use that hammer, give it to me." You take a swing and miss and hit your hand. That's ironic and we agree on that. There is no commonly agreed result there but it's ironic that you tell me I can't use the hammer, take it thinking you can and then show you have no idea how to use it.

It's hypocrisy if you say "You don't understand irony and I do" but you know you don't understand irony. If you say "You don't understand irony and I do", believe it and then unwittingly show you don't understand irony, then that's ironic buddy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

I don't care if you like their recent works or not. And I don't lable people blind followers, RDKopper has labled himself as one. He's said he loves anything the bands does. That's pretty much the definition.

Has he labelled himself a blind follower? Show me where he said that. The only post I've seen from him says he doesn't consider himself a blind follower.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

What I do have a problem with is people like you who keep saying that people who DON'T like the new stuff should go away.

I really think this board would be better off if the people trolling would go away which is what Panda was doing in my opinion (he even eventually admitted that he hadn't heard the entire 1D album).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

Ok, let's have this conversation in your third language. Which one would that be?

Oh, getting into personal insults? I'm quite happy with my English, thank you very much. I'd like to see you try a different language than your mother tongue. Take a pick, I'll try to understand.

I admire anyone who speaks other languages Alanis. It's a great skill. But we are discussing our comprehension of English so other languages are irrelevant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

Because you keep saying how "adult" and "mature" you are ("big boys"), act like a teenager and hide your age from your profile.

To me, that screams "15-year-old trying to be important".

Ice

Again, trying to know someone that you obviously don't. Where did I "keep" saying I'm mature by the way? For your info, I'm 33 Alanis.

Bounce7800 · #**162** 03-12-2013, 11:07 AM

If you two could bring this argument to a close and bring this back on topic it would be much appreciated, as you are both just going round in circles.

RonJovi · #**163** 03-12-2013, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bounce7800

If you two could bring this argument to a close and bring this back on topic it would be much appreciated, as you are both just going round in circles.

Surprised anyone is still reading to be honest.

Iceman · #**164** 03-12-2013, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonJovi

This is where your lack of understanding of the English language or attention span is the problem. At least you've accepted the possibility it wasn't an instruction and I'm now telling you it wasn't. Want to move on? I did actually preface that paragraph with "I don't think" as well but I guess you need everything spoonfed to you in order to not misunderstand.

Your "I don't think" is part of a different sentence. It's not connected to the part where you tell him to go away. Which, BTW, you confirm below to mean just what I say it meant.

Quote:

How likely do you think it is that I'm wrong though.

Very. I'm pretty sure most people who have listened to and liked Bon Jovi in the 80s would say that pretty much anything is better than WAN.

Quote:

No you're wrong. If you say, "You have no idea how to use that hammer, give it to me." You take a swing and miss and hit your hand. That's ironic and we agree on that. There is no commonly agreed result there but it's ironic that you tell me I can't use the hammer, take it thinking you can and then show you have no idea how to use it.

This is your opinion. I still stand by my statement that you don't understand how irony works and had to dig out a definition that could be remotely understood as something you claim happened here, when in fact it didn't. I do know what irony means, how it works and how it doesn't, as I've showed you many time. You, on the other hand, keep insisting that I expected something, which I didn't, and because that thing I was supposed to be expecting didn't happen, it somehow became ironic. It didn't.

Quote:

It's hypocrisy if you say "You don't understand irony and I do" but you know you don't understand irony. If you say "You don't understand irony and I do", believe it and then unwittingly show you don't understand irony, then that's ironic buddy.

Yes, it would be, if that were to happen. It didn't. You think it did, but if you read the posts back, you'll see that you were wrong. Nowhere did I expect something to happen, and neither did anyone else. You just thought I expected something. But owning up to that would make your argument false, so you keep claiming I did, even though there's no facts to support it nor can you get any, because it's impossible. Ergo, I win. Neener neener! :P

Quote:

Has he labelled himself a blind follower? Show me where he said that. The only post I've seen from him says he doesn't consider himself a blind follower.

If I say I'm not a human, it doesn't make me an animal. He's stated how he loves everything the band does and will support them no matter what they do. That's a blind follower. He doesn't need to label himself that literally.

Quote:

I really think this board would be better off if the people trolling would go away which is what Panda was doing in my opinion (he even eventually admitted that he hadn't heard the entire 1D album).

And here's again the part where you say that people should leave the forum. This time you've added the "I think", so at least you've learned something.

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I admire anyone who speaks other languages Alanis. It's a great skill. But we are discussing our comprehension of English so other languages are irrelevant.

But your personal insults toward me are relevant. It shows that your running out of actual arguments and have to resort to personal insults. Also, it strengtens the "teenager" interpretation.

And if you dare to judge anyone's grasp on English on an international forum, you're an asshole. And yes, that's meant to be an insult.

Let's see you try it in Spanish. Or French or whatever you choose. We'll see how that goes. Until then, you keep your mouth shut about people's language skills.

Quote:

Again, trying to know someone that you obviously don't. Where did I "keep" saying I'm mature by the way? For your info, I'm 33 Alanis.

Well, nice to meet you 33 Alanis. I don't believe you, but that's beside the point. And where exactly did I "try to know" anyone? I very clearly stated my opinion, and even included the facts that support it. Yet, you didn't understand that as an opinion. Now, THAT'S ironic.

See? You insult my English, for not understanding that your instructions are actually opinions, yet YOU fail to understand an opinion even when the sentence starts with "To me", which clearly means "it's my opinion that". Oh, irony, thou art a heartless bitch.

Ice

RonJovi · #**165** 03-12-2013, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

Your "I don't think" is part of a different sentence. It's not connected to the part where you tell him to go away. Which, BTW, you confirm below to mean just what I say it meant.

Very. I'm pretty sure most people who have listened to and liked Bon Jovi in the 80s would say that pretty much anything is better than WAN.

This is your opinion. I still stand by my statement that you don't understand how irony works and had to dig out a definition that could be remotely understood as something you claim happened here, when in fact it didn't. I do know what irony means, how it works and how it doesn't, as I've showed you many time. You, on the other hand, keep insisting that I expected something, which I didn't, and because that thing I was supposed to be expecting didn't happen, it somehow became ironic. It didn't.

Yes, it would be, if that were to happen. It didn't. You think it did, but if you read the posts back, you'll see that you were wrong. Nowhere did I expect something to happen, and neither did anyone else. You just thought I expected something. But owning up to that would make your argument false, so you keep claiming I did, even though there's no facts to support it nor can you get any, because it's impossible. Ergo, I win. Neener neener! :P

If I say I'm not a human, it doesn't make me an animal. He's stated how he loves everything the band does and will support them no matter what they do. That's a blind follower. He doesn't need to label himself that literally.

And here's again the part where you say that people should leave the forum. This time you've added the "I think", so at least you've learned something.

But your personal insults toward me are relevant. It shows that your running out of actual arguments and have to resort to personal insults. Also, it strengtens the "teenager" interpretation.

And if you dare to judge anyone's grasp on English on an international forum, you're an asshole. And yes, that's meant to be an insult.

Let's see you try it in Spanish. Or French or whatever you choose. We'll see how that goes. Until then, you keep your mouth shut about people's language skills.

Well, nice to meet you 33 Alanis. I don't believe you, but that's beside the point. And where exactly did I "try to know" anyone? I very clearly stated my opinion, and even included the facts that support it. Yet, you didn't understand that as an opinion. Now, THAT'S ironic.

See? You insult my English, for not understanding that your instructions are actually opinions, yet YOU fail to understand an opinion even when the sentence starts with "To me", which clearly means "it's my opinion that". Oh, irony, thou art a heartless bitch.

Ice

Let's go round again, one more time.

Matey, I wouldn't dream of having a pop at anyone over their grasp of English until they tell me (falsely) that I don't understand something despite not having a clue themselves. Like I say, I admire anyone that speaks another language.

If I start a paragraph with "I don't think", I don't expect to have to start every sentence with "in my opinion" or "I think" unless I'm saying something that clearly contradicts the fact I'm expressing an opinion. Most people will be able to judge from the tone that what I was offering was an opinion. You've even admitted yourself that it could have been me offering an opinion. If I'd said, "Panda, stop posting on this board" then I was giving an order or trying to do something I have no authority to do but that's not what happened.

Anyway, you've admitted it could have been an opinion. I've told you it was just an opinion. No-one else has taken it as me giving instructions. Hand on heart, it was a suggestion/opinion. Are you ready to accept that now?

So you think that anyone who liked Bon Jovi in the 80s would prefer anything to WAN? Really? You're using that as an argument??? Haha, it's hard to argue with pig-headed stupidity.

You don't understand the term 'expectation' in relation to the definition of irony that was posted in this thread clearly. That's unfortunate but there is no other way to explain it to you. You've accepted the hammer example as ironic. You did the same thing whether you accept it or not. It was ironic. You don't want to see that, it's fine. Want to move on?

Rdkopper has never said that he loves everything they do that I'm aware of. I've seen a post saying the opposite the other day from him.

Finally, despite a deluded self-appointment as the policeman of this board, you have no authority. If you have a problem with any of my posts like you have with the one you misinterpreted, report me to the mods and let them deal with it. That's how message boards usually work.

Although, if you do that, you'll probably have to find another way to massage your ego or overstate your importance.

RonJovi · #**166** 03-12-2013, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

I still stand by my statement that you don't understand how irony works and had to dig out a definition that could be remotely understood as something you claim happened here, when in fact it didn't.

Must pull you on this too.

The only definitions I've used are the one you originally posted and the one from the Oxford English Dictionary. To prove you were talking nonsense, and to get you to admit why what you did was ironic (if only indirectly), I used your definition and your hammer example.

Jog on...

Iceman · #**167** 03-12-2013, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonJovi

Matey, I wouldn't dream of having a pop at anyone over their grasp of English until they tell me (falsely) that I don't understand something despite not having a clue themselves. Like I say, I admire anyone that speaks another language.

You've already done it, at least two times, probably more.

Quote:

If I start a paragraph with "I don't think", I don't expect to have to start every sentence with "in my opinion" or "I think" unless I'm saying something that clearly contradicts the fact I'm expressing an opinion. Most people will be able to judge from the tone that what I was offering was an opinion.

The second sentence was clearly an instruction, if not an order, to leave the messageboard. Which you've repeated in the post above. Why can't you just admit it?

Quote:

So you think that anyone who liked Bon Jovi in the 80s would prefer anything to WAN? Really? You're using that as an argument??? Haha, it's hard to argue with pig-headed stupidity.

I never said "any", I said most people. And I don't have any proof, but I'm pretty sure anyone who enjoyed Bon Jovi's music in the 80s, wouldn't be too keen on what they're doing today. I know many people who thought they were red hot back then, but can't stand the new songs.

Quote:

You don't understand the term 'expectation' in relation to the definition of irony that was posted in this thread clearly. That's unfortunate but there is no other way to explain it to you. You've accepted the hammer example as ironic. You did the same thing whether you accept it or not. It was ironic. You don't want to see that, it's fine. Want to move on?

The point is, that I didn't do it. You think I did, but that doesn't really count. I don't care what you think about it, but the fact (that anyone can look up) is that you did use the word "irony" wrong, as if you didn't understand the concept of it. You've told 3 different sets of "mistakes" i made, none of which are ironic.

Quote:

Rdkopper has never said that he loves everything they do that I'm aware of. I've seen a post saying the opposite the other day from him.

Can't be bothered to dig the quote up, but it was a few days ago.

Quote:

Finally, despite a deluded self-appointment as the policeman of this board, you have no authority. If you have a problem with any of my posts like you have with the one you misinterpreted, report me to the mods and let them deal with it. That's how message boards usually work.

No. I never calimed to be a police or even a mod here. I jsut told you that you act like an idiot, ehich you did. You chose to jump on that. Mods here won't do anything about posts or people, no matter how idiotic, if they're not indecent or against the rules (racist, name-calling, etc.). Could've reported a couple of your later posts, though, but chose not to.

And if you don't know how this board works, are you really qualified to tell me how to act here?

Quote:

Although, if you do that, you'll probably have to find another way to massage your ego or overstate your importance.

Believe me, this has no effect on my or my ego, whatsoever. I don't try to inflate my ego by arguing with the likes of you. Nor do I lose any sleep over it. It's just fun watching people get riled up and resorting to personal insults when they find out they've been called out on all their arguments. You can call it a hobby if you will. My life is somewhere outside this message board. I actually stopped posting here for a long time because the place became over-run with backstagers or the like-minded admirers of Jon. I only came back because a lot of the old-timers returned as well. Let's see how long this place can stay above the backstage level. You're not making it any better in that respect.

Ice

Iceman · #**168** 03-12-2013, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonJovi

Must pull you on this too.

The only definitions I've used are the one you originally posted and the one from the Oxford English Dictionary. To prove you were talking nonsense, and to get you to admit why what you did was ironic (if only indirectly), I used your definition and your hammer example.

Jog on...

I haven't posted "my definition", I gave you an example. Your "Oxford" definition isn't from the Oxford Dictionary, I don't know where you dug it up, but I don't really care. The actual (non-literary) difinition in the Oxford dictionary is

"a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result"

And nothing remotely like that ever occured in this thread.

Ice

RonJovi · #**169** 03-12-2013, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

You've already done it, at least two times, probably more.

The second sentence was clearly an instruction, if not an order, to leave the messageboard. Which you've repeated in the post above. Why can't you just admit it?

I never said "any", I said most people. And I don't have any proof, but I'm pretty sure anyone who enjoyed Bon Jovi's music in the 80s, wouldn't be too keen on what they're doing today. I know many people who thought they were red hot back then, but can't stand the new songs.

The point is, that I didn't do it. You think I did, but that doesn't really count. I don't care what you think about it, but the fact (that anyone can look up) is that you did use the word "irony" wrong, as if you didn't understand the concept of it. You've told 3 different sets of "mistakes" i made, none of which are ironic.

Can't be bothered to dig the quote up, but it was a few days ago.

No. I never calimed to be a police or even a mod here. I jsut told you that you act like an idiot, ehich you did. You chose to jump on that. Mods here won't do anything about posts or people, no matter how idiotic, if they're not indicent or against the rules (racist, name-calling, etc.). Could've reported a couple of your later posts, though, but chose not to.

And if you don't know how this board works, are you really qualified to tell me how to act here?

Believe me, this has no effect on my or my ego, whatsoever. I don't try to inflate my ego by arguing with the likes of you. Nor do I lose any sleep over it. It's just fun watching people get riled up and resorting to personal insults when they find out they've been called out on all their arguments. You can call it a hobby if you will. My life is somewhere outside this message board. I actually stopped posting here for a long time because the place became over-run with backstagers or the like-minded admirers of Jon. I only came back because a lot of the old-timers returned as well. Let's see how long this place can stay above the backstage level. You're not making it any better in that respect.

Ice

Bahahahahahaha you're some man Alanis.

It wasn't an instruction. You've admitted yourself that it may not have been. You have admitted that so therefore it "clearly" wasn't anything. I'm telling you it wasn't an instruction. Why are you still arguing?

Okay, how many people who liked the band in the 80s do you know of? I'm one of them by the way and I still like what Bon Jovi do. It isn't as good, for me, as the stuff from 88-95 but the good still outweighs the bad.

I "used the word irony wrong". Haha you really are the gift that keeps giving. Incidentally, I've used your definition and your example to prove you wrong. Give it up.

You said "I'm telling you to behave". You have no authority to tell anyone to behave.

Re the name calling - people in glass houses and all that.

And if you think I'm riled, you really don't know me Alanis. I love people like you who leap before they look. And you have made an average of about 2 posts for every single day for the last 10 years. Seems like a lot of your life is on this board.

RonJovi · #**170** 03-12-2013, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

I haven't posted "my definition", I gave you an example. Your "Oxford" definition isn't from the Oxford Dictionary, I don't know where you dug it up, but I don't really care. The actual (non-literary) difinition in the Oxford dictionary is

"a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result"

And nothing remotely like that ever occured in this thread.

Ice

Alanis Iceman, the gift that just keeps giving.

Take a look at post 136 in this thread. Haha you are great.

And you can deny all you want but what you did was ironic. You just can't process the definition properly for whatever reason. You're some comedian.

The definition that I resorted to using to illustrate why what you did was ironic, by the way, was the one you posted in 133.

Says something though that you went for Wikipedia and I went for the Oxford English Dictionary.

Good man yourself Alanis, keep making a tit of yourself.

View Poll Results: What Will You Do Next.................
Ripped it and will now buy the CD	59	83.10%
Ripped it but will now NOT buy CD	8	11.27%
Ripped it but will delete it and not buy it	4	5.63%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

So you've ripped it.............

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