New Studio Album - Forever

Van Halen's backing tracks were recorded separately from DLR who came in at night to do his vocals alone. I don't know if I'd use a band with dynamics more messed up than BJ as an example haha.

But I also don't agree that the band isn't recording and jamming the basic tracks together for the past few albums. No, not every track, but THINFS had massive amounts of pre-production and song culling. 2020 and the new album both had time with the full band fleshing out the songs together. I'd be hard pressed to say most of 2020 had the feel of the band members coming in after the fact.

I think it has a lot to do with Shank's producing "niche" being solo artists, there aren't a ton of groups in his repetoire. I wonder if hectic pop star schedules is why his thing is producing so fast.

Keep The Faith, Subhuman Race, black album, Load/Reload, Dr. Feelgood, Crue '94, were albums I listened to all the time back in the day, but I haven't enjoyed a Bob Rock album since Load/Reload. That's probably more to do with the artists he has produced than his abilities as a producer.

Agreed. Not sure why people want to let Jon off the hook and blame Shanks. These recent albums are sounding like Jon wants them to sound. Shanks definitely isn't the reason they delayed the album to add Do What You Can and American Reckoning, while at the same removing the best song on the album.

I think, much like musicians, producers also have their peak where they find their sound and the sound that fits in its time and then also fade a bit. As others have pointed out, a number of more recent Bob Rock productions, I didn't enjoy sonically much either. Hell, St. Anger is over 20 years old and I hated that (haven't listened to it for what feels like a lifetime).

The only thing I can "accuse" Shanks of is having introduced Bon Jovi to the "wall of the sound / all done on the fly" type of recording and production. Jon said in a EPK for HAND that Shanks was the first producer he shut up, just sat back and let him produce the songs (sound like he was more of a pain in the ass on albums prior to it ).
That sound was quite popular at the time, but hell, HAND also is two decades old by now, times have changed. Maybe Jon grew comfortable with it, but Shanks could've brought new sound or production ideas (especially as he's part of their line-up by now) to the table as well.

HAND at least sounded like the band still had some life in them. I wouldn't think that Jon was telling Fairbairn and Rock how to do things; I'm guessing he mostly sat back and let them produce the songs. With Fairbairn Jon hadn't earned it yet and Rock was a notorious hard ass back in those days, in addition off the success of the Black album Jon would want to do it Rock's way imo. Either way Keep The Faith is probably their best sounding album imo.

Lars wanted the drums to sound like that on St. Anger.

At this point Jon is less than a shadow of his former self, and who the outside producer is will not matter imo. If Jon thinks Limitless is what passes for a big rock anthem nowadays, then I don't think Jon knows what a rock song is at this point.

To my ears, HAND has that production problem but Lost Highway and 2020 were produced so much better than the other Shanks albums. HAND and WAN are rough as hell in parts.

It just feels like people use that anecdote about how HAND was recorded to prove some big point that every album after that was reforded that way. It doesn't matter how many producers, engineers and band members that say otherwise, it's an unescapable comment to bolster a point.

The Shanks era record where I really feel that the performances bring down the songs is The Circle. I like quite a bit of the material on there, but considering Jon still had a voice and Richie was in the picture, the performances are pretty lacking. It all sounds a little slower, less energetic, more programmed than it used to. Which is a shame!

There's meh performances on the stuff after too, but considering the shape JBJ's voice was by then, and the fact that Richie is gone, I wouldn't say they weren't giving what they had available its due space

For me, it goes both ways. The other side always uses the "but they were in a room together" comments and pictures from Phil as a defense and excuse when people say they don't work on songs enough anymore. Sure, they might've been recorded in one room, but one neither knows how much was basically pre-organized (or not of course) and how much the band really decided to work and experiment into different directions. Recorded off the floor surely is better than them saying it was pre-done and David and Tico went in for two days but people using it for arguments like "you can't say it wasn't worked on enough because they sat in one room" is as much BS as the other way of looking at it to me.

Yeah fair points for sure. All we can go by are interviews from people like Hugh and David who have nothing to lose or gain by saying Jon shows them the rough scratch iphone demos and they go in together and add their own ideas as it goes (which isn't that how it's always been with them? rough acoustic drafts done by the principal songwriters then built upon later?). I know it's not every song is that way the "it's jon bon jovi and friends" and "ohh it's a drum machine" rhetoritc still feels wild to me, I thought it was whildly revealing 2020s liner notes said who did what on what song, after years of questioning other band member's involvement.

You're bang on, we don't know how much experimentation goes on during the pre-production phase but the fact that we're getting actual stuff from engineers and band members about the process of the last few albums, doesn't that tip things further in the direction oif "They no longer record like they did for one album in 2005" versus "I have a hunch they're full of shit becauase I don't like how it sounds?"

https://www.nbcsports.com/motor-spor...r-shank-racing

Maybe we can have some snippet from the new album??