Thank You, Goodnight: The Bon Jovi Story, coming to Hulu

Rdkopper · #**331** 04-22-2024, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabriel Shoes

I'm always pondering the question if he genuinely knew his voice was declining that much since 2002. The TLFR versions seemed a conscius choice from the beginning. That thing he said about Dorothea having to open his eyes was really weird.

After all, I probably knew where this was leading to. The WWWB documentary didn't show this man taking care of his voice at all, instead it just showed the CEO of a major corporation. I guess it didn't go unpunished, right?

1. I once thought TLFR was a vocal move but looking back, it wasn't. Jon thought he was doing something outside the box and some songs actually did work but most were a flop.

2. Jon talks in "short" sometimes and you have to rephrase what he actually means...Jon definitely knew his voice had declined but I think he thought fans in the audience didn't notice it (for the same reasons as we always stated here) and in 2017-2018, he did pull it off. People/Fans/Critics might have made comments but nothing like the way they were blasting him in 2021. In 2021 the scam was up and Dorothea called it out because no one else around him would have.

3. You can't say that Jon didn't care about his voice during the WWWB documentary. It literally starts off with him putting that laser thing on his throat.

liljovi93 · #**332** 04-22-2024, 10:00 AM

Yeah, not sure how WWWB gave you the impression he doesn't care about his vocals? Apart from smoking, I actually think it showed us a nice amount.

Jon's hardly going to come out and say 'for 20 years, I knew my voice was declining' - He's a business man more than anything these days and knows what to do/say a lot of the time. He knows he can't come across like he was ripping people off for X amount of years so has to say that he only realized the last tour or so and went and done something about it. It's only due to the press and fans etc that picked up on it even more than ever that's made him panic. Dorothea saying it (if this story is true) was probably the last kick in the dick.

He'll have known for a long time but he got away with it for a large portion of his career.

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semigoodlooking · #**333** 04-22-2024, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liljovi93

Jon's hardly going to come out and say 'for 20 years, I knew my voice was declining' - He's a business man more than anything these days and knows what to do/say a lot of the time. He knows he can't come across like he was ripping people off for X amount of years so has to say that he only realized the last tour or so and went and done something about it. It's only due to the press and fans etc that picked up on it even more than ever that's made him panic. Dorothea saying it (if this story is true) was probably the last kick in the dick.

Meh, he wasn't ripping anyone off. Any proper fan would already know about his worsening vocals over the last decade. If they then decided to still go to a show, they were making a contract stating they would overlook the declining voice.

As for casuals, the ones who always really matter, they were still mostly enjoying shows with little understanding the voice was worsening. They were mostly none the wiser during/after shows. It was only the last mini tour where the press, commentators, and casuals really started to pick up on the situation. And that was when his voice was already completely broken, he was told about it, decided to stop and sort it out. Before that they were still doing stadium tours where Jon's awful voice was not a hot topic.

It has been a shit journey for sure, and Jon absolutely should have known sooner, and acted sooner. But he sells a product and people were continuing to buy it, either with acceptance or while still relatively enjoying it.

liljovi93 · #**334** 04-22-2024, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semigoodlooking

Meh, he wasn't ripping anyone off. Any proper fan would already know about his worsening vocals over the last decade. If they then decided to still go to a show, they were making a contract stating they would overlook the declining voice.

As for casuals, the ones who always really matter, they were still mostly enjoying shows with little understanding the voice was worsening. They were mostly none the wiser during/after shows. It was only the last mini tour where the press, commentators, and casuals really started to pick up on the situation. And that was when his voice was already completely broken, he was told about it, decided to stop and sort it out. Before that they were still doing stadium tours where Jon's awful voice was not a hot topic.

It has been a shit journey for sure, and Jon absolutely should have known sooner, and acted sooner. But he sells a product and people were continuing to buy it, either with acceptance or while still relatively enjoying it.

A lot of people who went to them 2022 shows will have felt ripped off, I'm sure. I'm not saying that was Jon's intention at all but I imagine that's how he may feel.

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semigoodlooking · #**335** 04-22-2024, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liljovi93

A lot of people who went to them 2022 shows will have felt ripped off, I'm sure. I'm not saying that was Jon's intention at all but I imagine that's how he may feel.

Of course, but before that mini tour Jon insists he was still in the mindset his voice was holding up and they were managing it. Prior to that the feedback was not negative enough to help him change his mind. Heck, even during that mini tour he says he rated a show 8/10 when his wife told him it was awful. From what we know, as soon as he "knew" he started to act on it.

I guess the question here is if he was if he knew his voice was unworkable and still went on tour. I find it hard to believe considering Jon's ego and lean into him simply being too delusional to know how bad it was. But even then, for the most part the general audience was fine with how he sounded over the last decade.

Gabriel Shoes · #**336** 04-22-2024, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liljovi93

Yeah, not sure how WWWB gave you the impression he doesn't care about his vocals? Apart from smoking, I actually think it showed us a nice amount.

Jon's hardly going to come out and say 'for 20 years, I knew my voice was declining' - He's a business man more than anything these days and knows what to do/say a lot of the time. He knows he can't come across like he was ripping people off for X amount of years so has to say that he only realized the last tour or so and went and done something about it. It's only due to the press and fans etc that picked up on it even more than ever that's made him panic. Dorothea saying it (if this story is true) was probably the last kick in the dick.

He'll have known for a long time but he got away with it for a large portion of his career.

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In that documentary it showed a compulsive smoker.

Nothing, literally nothing in that documentary shows Jon taking care of his voice or whatever. It literally was just Jon smokes, Jon tries to buy a football team. The band backs him up.

semigoodlooking · #**337** 04-22-2024, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabriel Shoes

In that documentary it showed a compulsive smoker.

Nothing, literally nothing in that documentary shows Jon taking care of his voice or whatever. It literally was just Jon smokes, Jon tries to buy a football team. The band backs him up.

Yeah, but the documentary was not about music at all. It also didn't show Richie warming up on guitar, Tico drums, and David keyboards. Literally nothing in that documentary shows them doing anything related to music or the songs. You said the doc didn't show this is a man who takes care of his voice. Sure, but it also doesn't show someone who didn't take care of his voice. Hundreds - probably thousands - of famous singers over the years have smoked.

Dave88 · #**338** 04-22-2024, 04:23 PM

Jon started working with vocal coach Katie Agresta in 2008, exactly the time when WWWB has been filmed.

Thinny · #**339** 04-22-2024, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semigoodlooking

But even then, for the most part the general audience was fine with how he sounded over the last decade.

I don't think that's true. I just think they were unaware. The average fan does not look up the bands live performances on YouTube before they book tickets to a show. Everyone I know that went to the 2019 UK tour came away saying that Jon's voice was shot. They hadn't been to the UK for a number of years before that, so people just had no idea...

Quote:

Originally Posted by semigoodlooking

Sure, but it also doesn't show someone who didn't take care of his voice.

Smoking is the epitome of not taking care of your voice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by semigoodlooking

Hundreds - probably thousands - of famous singers over the years have smoked.

Sure, but none of them had to sing Livin' On A Prayer. And how many of them kept the quality in their voice later in life?

Captain_jovi · #**340** 04-22-2024, 04:57 PM

But the implication because it didn't show him working on voice (Which is falose) but did show him smoking, he therefore was not doing further steps which is a wildly ballsy claim considering how many hours of footage are condensed into an hour and a half.

2008 Jon sounded good, 2010/2011 he improved even more from there after a rocky 2006. He was absolutely working on his voice.

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