The Richie Sambora & Orianthi album

A few things I take away from Richie's performances:

He is not a natural frontman. He says he was always the frontman in bands before Bon Jovi, but that was 35 years ago. Even during the Stranger tour, which was great, he never looked natural leading a band.

Seeing Richie trying to be a frontman makes be realize again how amazing Jon was as a frontman. We can argue all day about voice (Jon's suits Bon Jovi songs better btw, go figure), but Jon kicks Richie's ass as a frontman. I think most here agree that at his peak Jon was the best, and it was not because of experience but because he just had something Richie does not.

Jon also does not have that something anymore. Seeing Richie put on these awful performances (almost amateur level quality) and realizing he is still better than Jon today makes me sad. How far has Bon Jovi slipped that these sloppy Richie performances are better?

Richie was as big a contributor to the decline in Bon Jovi's quality as Jon was. He has done nothing original or interesting since leaving the band. Jamming (really used in the loosest sense when discussing Richie) like a band that learned to play last year is not orignal, or cool.

The decline of Jon is more frustrating than the decline of Richie. Jon was an all-time great at what he did, so to see him lose that (passion, voice, ability, whatever it is) is sad. Richie was never a great at what he did, and the more I see him play live the more I think maybe the Bon Jovi machine was the glue that kept him together.

I don't buy that they (Jon and Richie) need each other. Perhaps they do in 2016, but 20 or even 10 years ago they did not. If Jon had branched out on his own in the 90s or 2000s, he would have had a solid career. Richie would have slipped into obscurity because wrongly he is labeled the guy from Bon Jovi.

I am glad that never happened but if Jon was like he was even in 2007, no-one but some fans would even miss Richie. I don't miss him. What is he going to bring to the table right now to improve Bon Jovi. Him and Jon are a mess, so it would be a mess regardless.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but definitely not withthat. Richie may have never been the greatest at being a front man, yes. But he used to be great at what he did - being the lead guitarist and the singer's right hand man. In the 80's and 90's Richie's guitar playing and vocal harmonies were as essential to the BJ sound as was Jon's charisma as a front man.
That there wasn't much of an essential contribution during the past few albums may be right. But how important his playing was can be seen on older songs. His licks and playing (especially during his prime up until around 2001) was way above on what Phil was delivering there (not blaming him, just stating the fact).

I agree he was important to the Bon Jovi sound. he helped as an integral part to craft six of my favorite albums ever (Bon Jovi through These Days). That wasn't the point I was making. I was basically saying:

Jon would have had a substantial career if Richie had left in 1996 or in 2006. He is sort of proving it now ... it is not anywhere near as good and maybe not as big, but its a career where he can probably play stadiums and big arenas. Richie cannot and would not have been able to, even then.

The second point and regarding greatness. I meant he was never classed as a great guitarist, no matter how you argue about how good he was. I loved him, he got me into playing guitar, but he is not a great. Jon on the other hand was a great frontman and was regarded as one by many outside the Bon Jovi fanbase.

Richie is not held on the same level as Page, SRV, Hendrix, May or any other untouchable superstars, true. But neither is Jon respected nearly as much as Plant, Mercury, Tyler or Jagger.

As far as not being regarded a great, but being a straight up great player, of course Richie was among the absolute best of the very best at what he did. His guitar work on the 80s albums is the gold standard for that genre, safe for maybe what Neal Schon did with Journey. Only Richie also sang harmonies and was more involved in the writing. Survivor's Frank Sullivan did that, but they were nowhere near as guitar driven as BJ in the 80s.

Right. No, Jon is not held in the same regard as those singers who usually make the top 10 of any list. However, he is considered one of the top frontmen ever, lists from Billboard to Rolling Stone seem to suggest this, not to mention numerous fan votes that a simple Google search found.

However, Richie is not considered even in the next tier down, or indeed in the tier after that of guitarists. I have perhaps seen Richie mentioned on a top 100 list twice, and once was for the solo of Wanted. We can cut it many ways, underrated being one of them, but the fact is Richie is not a guitar great.

He never set out to be or wanted to be, fine. I am not even talking about who is better. Richie gets respect from the guitar community if they have heard of him, but he is not loved, admired, or even considered that good. Its usually along the lines of "Yeah he's alright, got some nice solos" bla, bla, bla.

Why do you only mention Journey and Survivor as 80s rock? Richie was playing stuff different to those bands, even if Bon Jovi trode a line between 80s rock and that AOR stuff. He was much closer to Van Halen than he was Schon in terms of sound and composition in the 80s.

I would have him in my top 10 for a number of reasons. To me he is a great, but to most people. Nah. Go to a guitar or rock forum and ask them to name:

Top 100 guitarists
Top 100 blues guitarists
Top 100 rock guitarists

If he made one of them I would be shocked.

Jon routinely makes these kinds of lists btw, and usually around 25th.

Sorry for the long post, but. I think Richie fully deserved (yes, past tense) his place among these elite players. He was elevated above the 80s crap but got lumped in with it. He was also eclipsed by Jon and was content with that backseat. My point remains though, Jon will get by ok on his own, Richie will not have much of career. I also think there is a good case for calling Jon the best frontman on the planet at certain times in his career (These Days era springs to mind. I can debate that fact. I could never debate Richie was once the best guitarist on the planet ... he never was.

This all started from me saying Jon's decline is worse for me. Part of that is because all Richie needs to do is sit down and practice. Jon's seems more terminal, for want of a better word.

Yeah Jon is the more popular and more well-known of the two. He's the singer and the frontman. Bono is also more popular than The Edge. Tyler is more popular than Perry. The face of the band is more popular than the guitar player.

And Richie sounding like (classic) EVH ended with 7800°. The songs BJ had were certainly closer to 5150 than to Diver Down, safe for one-offs like Homebound Train. BJ were always about the songs, there was little to no instrumental showcasing. And they were about the vocal melodies. Van Halen are about instrumental textures and grooves.

Here's the thing. Jon is a front man in a stadium rock band. Richie was a sideman in an arena rock band. If he stole too much spotlight, he'd compromise the total product. EVH would not work in BJ. Neither would Angus Young. Hugh is also a totally great bass player, but it's guys like Flea who regularly make the top 5: He's flashy, he stands out, people take notice of him. Roger Glover is a giant on the bass, but he's usually not placed as high either.

Speaking of the 80s, Vinnie Vincent also stood out! Didn't work in favor of the band. Jon standing out works for him because he is the center of attention. Jon would not work in AC/DC, or in a 90s rock band. That's why I said Richie was among the very best at what he did. Which also prevented him from becoming a critics' darling, or even all that popular on his own. In terms of his role in the band, he's not Eddie van Halen, he's one of the Iron Maiden guys. Execpt they get lengthy solo sections to gather some attention. Still, they rarely ever make top 10 lists, either - despite 2 of them being absolutely great players.

Even though I can get what you're trying to say, it's still just wrong. No, he's not close to the Angus Young, Eric Clapton, Hendrix etc. status. But in my musical circuits consisting of everything from profesional swedish artists to music teachers of all genres to general music lovers, Richie is always regarded with much respect.

Everytime I bring up Bon Jovi, Richies name is often brought in high regards. Many people rate him very dearly among the rock guitarists. Not because he's the most technical guitar player but because of his incredible tastefulness and playing for the song. The way he arranged the guitar parts for many of the songs from 80s and 90s are absolutely fantastic. He always managed to emphasize the guitars without stealing the spotlight. The way he finds the perfect mix between blues guitar and rock guitar on the Keep the Faith and especially These Days album are among the best guitar work I've heard. The guitar solos he wrote back then was also something else. You can pick almost any solo from SWW to TD and there's so much melody. Take Born To Be My Baby for example, you can pretty much hum the entire solo mixed with some very tasteful bends and one "fast" phrase.

Maybe I went to deep now, but there's a lot of respect for Richie out there. At least I have rarely encountered any music knowledgeable person who can not see his greatness. So it's pretty sad to see what Richie is doing these days.

Richie needs to be in Bon Jovi for his own good. Even though he enjoys his freedom now, and have made some great solo work, (SITT and US), it's quite clear he needs to be in the "Bon Jovi chains" for his own good. He needs a leader like Jon to keep him humble for his own good. During The Cirle Tour and the Open Air Tour there were still some great Richie moments. He may not have the glow he had up until 2001-2003, but there were still some sparkling moments. But going solo now, it's just tragic.
It's like he's letting go of everything that has made him so great in his career. The tastefulness and keeping it simple are so far away from what he's doing now. Instead of doing what he does best he's trying to prove himself of being something he will never be.

nicely put.100% agree...richie made me cringe many times these last years but i just realised i prefer to watch richies you tube videos from brasil even when he fails 10 times over any live stuff from phil x. no insult intented just richie has sth special in comparison to the average axeman

I just don't think their voices blend that well together. But what has really bothered me about some things on YouTube is that Richie is obviously how shall I put this? How about not well?

What are you talking about? Apart from the fact they were once again under rehearsed, Richie looked well and happy in the Brazil footage.

This whole, Richie is wasted thing is really getting on my nerves. While there's no doubt he's had issues with this over the last few years, I see no evidence of this in the recent footage and he seems a lot more together, in that sense.

I think people expect him to look and act like he did 15 years ago. The guy is 57 for heaven's sake, I think people forget that sometimes...

I agree with the blending of the voices though....