Originally Posted by DevilsSon (Post 1180147)

With 7 (S-E-V-E-N) Bayern Muenchen players on he pitch including the one who scored the winning goal :D (if you also count Matts Hummels and Miro Klose who played for Bayern in the past, it's 9 current and former players) - I can only say BAYERN MUNICH is WORLD CHAMPION. Well done for getting a different kind of treble this season, boys!!!

Originally Posted by faith1985 (Post 1180152)

I have to disagree with you here. Even though they do / did play for Bayern, those guys work as a national team and not as a Bundesliga team. And as you can see with Messi being successful is about the team and not only about the individual players!

And hell yes this is a ****ing dream and I am so happy for the team that they finally did it!

Originally Posted by DevilsSon (Post 1180163)

What?? That Messi comparison is just silly and you don't want to get me started here on a proper rant.... The fact that they are Bayern players is why Germany appeared to be such a cohesive team. Or why do you think Schweinsteiger thanked Uli Hoeness and said that they could have never won it without him at the end? With 70% of the team being Bayern players, it's a bit silly to argue against it, no matter how much you hate them.

Anyhow, without wanting to sound like a dick, there are two types of successful tournament teams.

1. Teams build around one or two dominant players. E.g.: France 1998/ France 2006 (Zidane). Netherlands 1974/1978 (Cruyff), Brazil 1998/ 2002 (Ronaldo), Argentina 1986, 1990 (Maradona), 2014 (Messi)

2. Teams built around a large contingent of core players who play together at the same one or max two club within the same country:
E.g.: Germany 1972-74 (Bayern), Germany 1986-1990 (Inter, Juve), Germany 2014 (Bayern), Spain 2008-2012 (Barcelona), Italy 1982 (Juventus), Netherlands 1988 (Milan)

Whatever you're little 'Wir sind Deutschland' heart is telling you, this world cup win has only happened because Bayern Munich has such a strong core of players that know each other inside out, both at club and national team. Everything else is just patriotic blah blah!

Originally Posted by faith1985 (Post 1180188)

Why is the Messi compasrison silly???

Originally Posted by DevilsSon (Post 1180199)

Because you were comparing one player to contingent of 7 players saying it's all about the team rather than the players. Of course it's about the team but when 7/11 players are from one team, covering ALL the main positions (goalie, team captain, play-maker and key striker) you can't make a comparison to ONE player and say 'look at Messi, football is a team sport'. Very simply - I was speaking about 7 players, not one.


What are you talking about? Mascherano was in my opinion man of the tournament. Messi, Aguero, Higuain, di Maria, Lavezzi...these are by quite a distance some of the best players in the world. The central defender Garay was on Bayern's list for ages, they somehow never managed to sign him and not he went for a shitload of money to play in Russia.



Of course the national team, just like a club, needs time to grow. Yet compare Germany's football 2006 to what they play now. You can see how Germany's game evolved and adapted to Bayern's game. What Germany played at this tournament was very much what Bayern played last season under Heynckes. Of course you can look at it from a very sentimental perspective. But that's how things are.



See my first quote. I'd call them "Ergaenzungsspieler". The core of the team is all Bayern. Now whether it's Oezil playing or not, whether it's Khedira or Kramer, whether it's Mertesacker or Hummels or any other central defender it has only minimal impact. Of course you will disagree here but it will only be based on sentimental reasoning. And just to come back to your Klinsmann analogy - when Klinsi became Bayern coach, he thought Hummels had no perspective and was never going to be good enough for Bayern (as opposed to Badstuber who is the same age). He sold him for peanuts to Dortmund. The only non Bayern player that made an actual difference, was Andre Schuerrle.


Not the players. Bayern Munich in itself. It's difficult to accept that the foundation of a national success is deeply grounded in the work of such a despicable team, is it not?



Yes - look at the string of Argentinean players I outlined and look at their market value (Transfermarkt.de)

Messi - 120M

Aguero - 45M
Higuain - 40M
Di Maria - 30M
Lavezzi - 21M
Garay - 20M
Mascherano - 15M

These are in fact comparable to Germany's values and are those of very very good players. This is also comparable to Brazil 2002. By far the best player in those two squads were Ronaldo and Mess. Maybe you can see what I mean. FYI, Germany's market values on comparable positions are:

Mueller - 50M
Goetze - 48M
Kroos - 42M
Schweini - 35M
Hummels - 35M
Lahm - 30M
Howedes - 16M

Anyhow - this isn't really worth all the discussion. You're points are all based on some sentimental perception of a team growing together as a unit that is beyond the individual and doesn't it display soooo many of all the core German values that makes Germans such a proud nation blah blah. And it does make for a good story, doest it? A very good one. Not to mention that the media that you base your opinion on is ALL national media so hardly ever would they say 'oh, thank you Bayern' or they'd risk to never sell a copy again outside Bavaria. But if you just detached a little and looked at it objectively, you'd see I am right. You just don't like it. No German likes it to be fair :)

Originally Posted by faith1985 (Post 1180201)

Well apart from some points being a bit insulting ;-), My points are not all biased. I still think Messi and DiMaria are the core of Argentina's talent and what about Brazil? The most im portant player is injured and they play like the 'Kreisklasse'.
Apart from Müller and Schweini most of the Bayern players grew up in different teams (Neuer???....) and to call Khedira, Klose, Reuss, Hummels 'Ergänzungsspieler' is insulting to them.
If Reuss starts playing for Bayern and wins the EU Cup in two years do you call Bayern responsible for his talent and integration within the team?

Originally Posted by Rocknation

We put these guys on pedestals, refuse to hold them accountable when they screw up because they have so much talent or moneymaking potential, and are "shocked" when they do something worse!

...(A)n American football player is on trial for a 2012 double murder. He is ALSO charged with the 2013 murder of a "friend." And he's accused of expressing his affection for another of his friends by shooting one of his eyes out! But maybe if he'd been properly punished for an underage drinking incident when he was in college (he damaged the eardrum of someone he punched), the National Football League would have known he was bad news.