Okay petal, fair enough.

Firstly, it was my pleasure.

Secondly. Jon was named 12th in a Classic Rock 50 greatest front-men (not singers) mind.

Ha ha !:D No I don't work at a job centre. I'm actually a writer - believe it or not. So I kind of understand the creative process. Whilst I've been published by major publishers on several occasions, like most writers, I can't support myself by writing alone, so I also have a day job.

Regardless of what job you do, and of 'real world employment parctices' - I feel that there is always an honourable way to behave, and a dishonourable way to behave. Of course different people will define those concepts differently. But I suspect that working class/blue collar people will always consider it dishonourable to walk out on a job half way through. But you're right - rock stars are clearly different. Richie proves that point.

Welcome to the train wreck!! (At least I think I can say that, since compared with a lot of the guys around here I'm a newbie. :))

I appreciated both of your posts and for the most part I agree with everything you said. Since you've been lurking you probably won't be surprised that the only thing I would add is that while I agree that in the real world, and under most circumstances, walking out on a job would a less than honorable thing to do, there might be reasons that make it the only thing to do. I don't know if that's the case here or not; but it's always a possibility.

Been lurking and reading this thread/forum for ages and only recently joined the forum to be able to post too. Some comments here have great points, (couldn't post them all, so I chose a few). I like this forum because it seems people on here are more "open minded". Yes, you have your "fanatics" and "lunatics" here too...but it seems one is actually able to have a "fairly intelligent" discussion over here. Not always (LOL)...but at least the chances are better than on the "other forum".

I feel the same about admiring Richie for his courage to be the captain of his own ship...of his own happiness...of his own life. We still don't really know WHY he left and can only speculate. But even if he left "just" because he was unhappy...I commend him for taking care of HIMSELF and taking care of his own needs...his own well being. Could he have chosen a better timing for leaving...sure. But I still maintain that we don't know his reasons for leaving. If he felt he just couldn't do it anymore, be it mentally or physically...then yes, I understand that he had no choice but to leave the way he did in order to maintain his own mental or physical well-being. And in that case it was ABSOLUTELY the right thing to do. People see celebrities as their "possession". It's easy to get caught up in the whole "media frenzy", especially now that the social media is such a huge part of our daily communications. It's even easier to think we "own" the celebrities and they "owe" us, since we see them all over the news and social media every day. It's easy to feel like "we made them" and feel "entitled" to have them be a part of our lives one way or the other. But what people easily forget is that just like us, celebrities too DO have a right for a private life. And even though one might be rich and famous and their life might look glamorous on the outside...it could be nothing but. At the end of the day, celebrities too are just humans who have their problems and personal issues they struggle with. There are so many celebrities that die each year of overdose or after committing a suicide...and much of it is due to the enormous pressure they are put under. The need to be perfect. The public demanding that they should always be available. Etc. etc. I wish more celebrities would just say "NO!!". I wish more of them would value their health and mental and physical well-being more than fame and money. Even if that would be the end of their career. But at least they'd be ALIVE and their parents would still have their child or their children would still have a parent. So if Richie felt he has to take a break to "stay sane" or to avoid another rehab trip or to maintain his well-being...or...as he said...to be with Ava because she needed him (as he said in some interviews...he obviously would NOT go into detail and discuss Ava's private life in the media. And we have no business knowing why she'd need him, if that was the case.) then he had every right. And I have absolutely no problem with his decision. (I'll get into it more later on while replying to another post below.)

I also admire Richie for being humble and not being afraid or "ashamed" to play in smaller venues. I'd say that's the way to do it. Start small and work your way up. And I'd rather have 500 people in the room who are REALLY INTO IT and who are there for the music, than 20 000 fans who walk back and forth to get a beer through out the show and see the artist taking off his shirt as the most memorable moment of the show and as the "highlight". I saw Richie during one of his solo shows and he was absolutely brilliant! And what surprised me was that there were a lot of GUYS in the audience and that the audience was literally "unstoppable" in their cheering and support without any prompting. Everyone knew the lyrics to all of Richie's songs, everyone was singing along and literally didn't wanna stop! And because of the talent I witnessed on stage and the chemistry with the audience and the over all atmosphere, it was probably the best show I have ever seen or been to. It was truly something magical. I was truly surprised at HOW GOOD Richie actually is as a solo act. He truly is very very underrated as an artist. As a singer. As a musician. The man is BRILLIANT. And not only that...he has SOUL. He isn't just singing or playing the right notes, he makes you FEEL the music. He fills the space with so much emotion that you can't help but to be touched by it. And to me, that is true greatness. That's something one can't learn. It's something you're born with. You either have it or you don't. And Richie definitely has got IT! Brilliant, brilliant artist. And I do claim to know a little something about music and have ears that are trained well enough to be able to recognize a great musician.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I couldn't agree more on everything you said!!! I too am a fan of the WHOLE band. I have a lot of respect for them all. They are all talented musicians. And I also support them all as a band as well as their solo projects. Yes, Richie has a special place in my heart, but I really am a fan of them all. And I too am ASHAMED to be a Bon Jovi fan at times. It's like who needs HATERS when you have "fans" like that. I understand having an opinion on something or not agreeing on something, but how one can go claiming to be a fan one day and then go on to call someone completely "talentless" (is that a word? LOL!) the next, is beyond me. Either one is a fan of their music...or one never was. And to me it is absolutely disrespectful and childish to say someone has no talent all of the sudden just because one is angry be it with Jon or Richie or both. To me that's cheap. But just my opinion.

(Sorry I cut your post, but would've been too long and wouldn't have been able to post other wise! )



I agree with you on most of the points you made. Great post! And it's always refreshing when someone tries to see it and understand it from both sides. Like I mentioned above, I'm a fan of the whole band. Yes, Richie has a special place in my heart, but so does Jon. Both of them have very endearing qualities as well as strengths and weaknesses. And looking at everything that has happened, both of them have made mistakes and could have handled it all better in my opinion.

You mentioned Jon having been "stupid" for not having used Richie's and David's potential as songwriters to the fullest. I agree. But I feel that way even more so about the same thing concerning their live shows. Especially when it comes to Richie. Jon had all that TALENT on stage and he made no use of it what so ever. That to me was baffling. And that is my biggest criticism towards Jon. And if I blame him of anything (even though "blame" is a bit too strong of a word), then it is that he did not let Richie use his full potential on stage. Richie's solos were very short and I think everyone here was wondering why Bobby was playing so many solos. Unlike many others, I actually do like Bobby a lot. But when you have RICHIE SAMBORA in your band and ON STAGE with you....why would you not let him have longer solos....and why would you not let him sing more. Why would you NOT let him show what he REALLY can do? That would not take away anything from Jon's "shine". It would have only added to it and would have only made the whole band even better. They would have been shining as a band even MORE. Not less. So if Richie left because of artistic reasons...Jon would have to put part of the blame on himself for not using Richie's full potential while he had a chance.

And that brings me to the next problem. The way Jon handled the situation after Richie left. And even though I have to drag Phil X into this now, please know that it really has nothing to do with him. I have nothing against Phil X as a person or as a musician. It's great that Phil X was able to jump in with such short notice, and he did a good job. Phil is a great player, but I missed the emotion Richie puts into the songs. And even though Phil X played well...Richie was truly missed. It was very painful to listen to the solos without Richie. The songs, even though played well and I did enjoy them, just weren't the same. And I have never hated hearing Wanted Dead Or Alive more than I did during the tour. If they would have skipped the whole song, it would have been fine with me. Without Richie's vocals, it was like a cover song. Same with I'll Be There For You. For some reason, certain songs just are "Richie songs" for me and just won't work without Richie. And yes, that is of course just my opinion. But it is what it is. Anyway, to get to my point. I found Jon's "Brother Phil" act really disrespectful towards not only Richie, but the whole band. And the way Jon let Phil play very long solos and sing solos and if you looked at the video screens, you would think it was the Phil X and Jon Bon Jovi show. That really ticked me off. And I really really couldn't understand it. Jon maybe didn't say much about Richie on the media, but the way he acted on stage was like he was deliberately doing it to "get back at Richie". I don't of course know for sure if that was his intention, but that's how it looked liked to me. And I thought that was really cheap and disrespectful of him and not necessary. Like I said, it was also absolutely disrespectful towards the other band members too in my opinion. David is a founding member, who has played with the band for 30 years...and he is stuck at the back and hardly even seen on the screen while Jon and Phil X share the spotlight. Hugh was practically invisible, not shown on the screens, and there was no "Brother Hugh" or anything to recognize him and the fact that he had been playing for DECADES with the band. I don't know if someone told Jon how his behavior made him look (deliberate or not) or if he realized it himself, but I am glad he changed it as the tour went on. I really liked that EVERYONE got a chance to shine towards the end of the tour. THAT'S how I would have wished it would have been like from the very beginning while Richie was still there too. Jon sharing his spotlight...not "hogging" it. So yes, if Jon could have done something better, it would have been to be less "egoistic" about the spotlight.

What comes to Richie leaving the way he did....Could he have chosen a better timing? Yes. Do I feel him leaving the way he did, even if it would have been just on a "whim" , justifies the way fans have been treating him...the answer is an absolute NO!!!! I'd still like to remind that we still DO NOT KNOW the real reasons why he left...but like I said...EVEN IF it was just on a whim....so he made a mistake. I get it. Fans are disappointed and angry. I get it. But it has been a YEAR!!!!! GET OVER IT!!! MOVE ON!!! Like I said...Richie has a special place in my heart...I had tickets to several shows...I traveled to different countries to see the band. Was I looking forward to see Richie? YES!! Was I disappointed that he wasn't there? YES! Was I almost crying at times at the shows because he wasn't there and it just didn't feel right and I missed him. YES!!! Was I angry at him? NO!! Because even though I am a huge fan of his, I also understand that he is a HUMAN BEING who has a right to his OWN LIFE and his OWN DECISIONS. And as I keep saying...to this day, I don't know his real reasons, so I am not gonna judge when I don't know his reasons. If he left on a whim, yeah, sucks. Stupid thing to do. But it was a year ago. People make mistakes. It's in the past now. Time to move on. Some people act like they are flawless and have never made mistakes. To keep throwing it to his face and to keep finding fault in EVERYTHING he does now just because of that incident is not only cruel...it's ridicilous. He's not a bad person and hasn't deserved to be ridiculed just because he (maybe...we don't know) made a mistake. If someone can't stand him anymore and can't forgive him, fine. That's their right. But it doesn't give them the right to bully and ridicule him. Don't like him. Fine. Move on. If I don't like something or someone, I just simply ignore them. Simple as that. Why waste one's energy on something negative? How does that add anything to anyone's life? It's wasted energy that could be spent on better, more constructive things. And looking at how a lot of Bon Jovi fans have treated Richie, they can only blame themselves if he's sick of the band. I can't imagine how hurtful it must be for him. Even I get to the point at times where I'm sick of the band and sick of the fans after I've read some comments. It has nothing to do with Richie or Jon...it's the fans who make me wanna puke. Who make me wanna not have anything to do with anything Bon Jovi related. It's the fans who have created the drama and who are leading the "war". Even when Jon himself has said that he doesn't hate Richie and that Richie didn't do it to hurt him or the band...do the Jon fans listen to him? No. They just keep on going with their Richie lynching. And that's really sad. People on both "sides" need to chill. Or move on. Or both. LOL! All the "who would have made it with or without who" is so pointless. The band made it as a band. They each contributed to their success. Richie is amazingly talented and a true musician. A brilliant and very underrated artist with a big heart and lots of soul. Jon is a great entertainer, a talented musician, and a shrewd business man. David is a very talented musician as well and a lot of fun to watch on stage. He's like the "cheer squad" on stage. The one keeping the spirits up. Always smiling and bouncing up and down and just spreading a happy mood. He would be missed too if he wasn't there. And Tico is the heartbeat of the band. Man, he hits the drums harder than any drummer I have ever seen and the man is like a metronome! So precise! Have so much respect for him also. Really missed him while he was sick! The sound just wasn't the same without him. So all of them are BON JOVI. I would NEVER start debating who the band could do without and who has whom to thank for their success when FACT is....it was ALL of them TOGETHER who made Bon Jovi what it is. And even though it is awesome that they have been around for 30 years and have given us fans so much, each of them still has a right to be the captain of their own ship and be their own person and decide where their ship will sail. ESPECIALLY after 30 years. They have given us 30 years of their lives. If that's not enough...I don't know what is. But everyone has to decide for themselves. I have nothing but love and respect for the WHOLE band. Everyone included. And I too wish they can mend what ever there is to mend and have their friendships restored. Even if they never perform or tour or record again. But for the sake of 30 years of memories together. To me the biggest tragedy wouldn't be if this would be the end of the band. The biggest tragedy would be if the band and the egos would come between their 30 years of friendship and memories together.

MissMusic...your post is too long to quote but I want to say that I also loved it at the end of the tour when the individual members got to shine onstage during the "jukebox" segment. It should have always been that way. As you said, there is a lot of talent onstage and Jon could loosen up utilize it.

Regarding the talent on stage, Miss Music makes a good point. The band would have sounded better if Jon had made more use of Richie and Dave. And if the band sounds better, that can only be good for Jon. So not only has he been stupid in not using these guys during the creative process, he's been stupid not using them in the live shows. If we are to get another tour, somewhere down the road, I'd hope to see Jon taking a back seat for a few more of the songs. Play guitar, do the backing vocals. Both Richie and Dave have far superior voices. Jon knows that - he has ears. Let the band sound as good as it can, and use those guys for the big belting ballads. I know casual fans might be a bit bemused to see Jon only singing half the show, but I think that they'd quickly get over it when they heard the quality of Richie's voice.

Jackieblue (and Miss Music) also makes a good point about us not knowing the whole story. Of course it could be true that Richie left because of some unforgivable offence that Jon had committed against him. It's possible, but in my opinion, unlikely. Given the way Richie's been petulantly shooting his mouth off to anyone who wants to hear how great he is, it's unlikely that he wouldn't have told us of any wrong that Jon had done him. Based on the evidence we have, he walked out on a job half way through, and that's just not acceptable to most ordinary working people.

If there is any untold story here, I suspect it revolves around some kind of substance abuse - something that Jon may have become more sensitive to as a result of happenings in his own household. If that is the case, it is very challenging for everybody involved, and I hope that it can be resolved for the sake of the people - not for the band. However the reality remains that all of this is just speculation on my part, and I could be completely wrong. I'm a recovering alcoholic of nearly ten years sobriety myself, so I have no axe to grind with any addict. And to me, people are just people. We all have problems to deal with, and the fact that other people know we have problems, is entirely irrelevant. If I see a man, with a head, and a beating heart - I know that somewhere in his past, his present, or his future, there is a problem. Usually, she is a woman:D - JUST A JOKE LADIES.

Have you been to a Bon Jovi show when the other guys have sang? In the USA it goes like this: people either sit down or take a beer/pee break. Richie can't hold a crowd for one song, much less half a show. I went to one of the Christmas shows where Richie and Dave both sang and Dave got a much better reaction than Richie. (He sang a song people knew and it rocked.)

I disagree with you about Richie's voice too. I can't stand his singing voice/style. I know saying that around here is akin to putting a bullseye on your chest, but it's the truth.

As someone who saw a show where Richie sang TWO songs in one show, this is flat out incorrect. He can be the best singer in the world (and I sincerely enjoy his voice more than Jon's sometime) if it ain't Jon, the North American audience will not stand for it. Two things create lulls: Another member singing and rarities being played. Combine them (ie Richie singing Homebound Train) and you have a giant hole in the show.