I'm not taking the risk on purchasing anything until I get confirmation that Richie had returned. It's a good job tickets are so easy to get on the European leg or else I'd be panicking.

What I'm worried about is the quality of the setlists we'll be seeing. Now, the quality of the setlists hasn't exactly pleased most of us anyway, but now that Richie is "gone" for at least this leg of the tour, I don't see them pulling out any kind of rarities. Which sucks.

Trying not to be rude and insulting like you, so I'll just say that you are completely wrong.

Aloha !

How so? You can backup an opinion by actually providing arguments as opposed to insults.

I've been in the Gold Circle, I've been on the field, I've been in the lower and upper tiers, no matter where you are, you're surrounded with clueless American fans. I've seen 11 concerts in North America by now, I think I've got quite a good idea over the differences crowd-wise and how people perceive Bon Jovi there. I was in the Gold Circle with an American die hard and she overheard a conversation in the washrooms going "Wow Kid Rock was amazing, how is Bon Jovi going to top that. With A Richie Sambora song? Ha ha ha..." Believe me, she thought it was ridiculous as well, but really, what can you do? It's just the way it is.

Now tell me, how many shows in Europe have you seen? As a matter of fact, how many shows outside of the Boston area have you seen? Clearly if you think you're wrong you must have something to back up your opinion?

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

Sure, that's why Richie sold out all his US Shows

Never been to a show in Europe. Been to shows in Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut and New Jersey. For the fans that I know, EVERYBODY knows who Richie is. I'm sure there are some morons who think it's just Jon Bon Jovi, but I don't see that as the majority. When he went to rehab on the last tour, the majority of people that I spoke to at the show knew full well who Richie was and that he wasn't going to be there.

Among people that I speak to, even non Jovi fans, I don't know too many people who don't know who Richie Sambora is.

What does that prove? I didn't buy a ticket to any of his shows either. I don't particularly care for his solo stuff. Doesn't mean I don't know who he is.

Maybe the reason Europe ...unlike America...sees Bon Jovi as a band, has to do with the fact that the band already built quite an impressive following in Europe (and Japan!), long before Slippery When Wet came out. Americans didn't really jump on the Bon Jovi bandwagon until then. Then Americans lost interest in the band again in the 90s while in Europe the fanbase grew even more. Europe never turned it's back on Bon Jovi...so there is a stronger bond.

That's bullcrap. Bon Jovi has always been big in America. Not as big in the 90's as they were in the 80's, but they still sold out every arena they played. From what people on this board are saying, their popularity in Europe has died down quite a lot over the course of the last 2 albums.

Bon Jovi were unknown in Europe until Slippery. All their singles failed to chart until 1985.

They never lost their hardcore fans in America. Keep the Faith and These Days went 2x Platinum and Platinum respectively. They only lost the casual fans, who moved to the next cool trend of the time.

The South American fans aren't ramming the fact down our throats.

And hell has officially frozen over. Sexx is 100% correct.

Yes they did, but they also had to tone down how many arenas they were playing compared to before because of diminished appeal. I am not sure that it is really up for debate that Bon Jovi's popularity in the US waned in the 90's. It just did.

While in Europe they increased their popularity if anything and started selling out bigger venues.

I really think there is a different demographic that makes the majority of the Bon Jovi fan base in the US. Supersonic has tasted both on multiple occasions so he is at least in a good place to judge properly. I get the feeling Bon Jovi puts in more effort away from the US too, why is that?

While in the 90s, Bon Jovi were massive in Europe and not so much in America, I'm not sure that was the case pre SWW. I wasn't a fan in the mid-80s but the chart positions indicate that they were no more popular in Europe than they were in the US at that point.

By the same token, South American tourists are also known to be rude, disruptive, disrespectful, disgusting animals while visiting North America. It's the culture.

There's no doubt their popularity waned in the 90's in the US, but honestly, it had no where else to go. In the 80's, Bon Jovi ruled America. Seb is going to say whatever makes his story sound more viable and makes Americans look worse. I'm not denying that European crowds are more into the shows than American crowds. I've never denied that. But to say that the "average American fan" doesn't know who Richie is is wrong.

North Korea has a far better audience than America and Europe combined, says North Korea.

How can the casual American fan know who Richie is when he doesn't even show up anyway?:rolleyes:

But Bon Jovi was the trend in the late 80s. They were everywhere and represented an entire generation of american youth.

By 1992, there were new bands like Nirvana and Pearl Jam. And the new kids weren't going to pick a band of the past, no matter how good Bon Jovi were.

That's the reason they never had the massive sales of the 80s in America.

I'm ashamed to say this made me laugh! :D

I am British living in Argentina. While the culture does offer some of the above (rude, disruptive etc) the disgusting animals is a little harsh, considering my perfectly normal fiancee is apparantly one of those animals. I have had plenty of experiences where Americans have lived up to their sterotypes, as I am sure you have with the English or Europeans, but calling them disgusting animals is bullshit.

I agree that most in America know Sambora, as much for his celebrity than for the band however. They know who he is, but I really think more casuals there would not give a shit if he was at a show or not. In Europe, sure plenty wouldn't care either, but I bet more would than in the US.

Me too. :-)

I know, and didn't say any differently, but none of that makes what I said any less true.

I've said this before - I take my family to Disney World every summer for 2 weeks. The South American tour groups are everything I described. They cut people in lines, they chant songs through the park during parades and while on buses, they throw trash on the ground, they run around the hotels and yell at all hours of the night. This isn't news to anyone who goes there. Go on any Disney message board and just mention the tour groups, the Brazilian ones specifically, and the thread will turn ugly and get closed within minutes.

Aloha !

Fair enough, we've got different experiences when it comes to what we hear when talking to other fans. Just as long as the examples of the people you talked to weren't your close friends or relatives.

That's because most South Americans don't speak English, have never been outside of their country, let alone have visited a Bon Jovi show in another country. Europeans have the money to travel, most South Americans don't.

No it's not. You wouldn't know their culture because you've never been to their country, you have no idea if they behave the same way in their own theme parks like they do when you were faced with their behavior on your Disney trips. If I were to form an opinion on Americans solely on how they behave in Holland it'd be of a country full of drug addicts dying to get high. That's not exactly correct either now, is it?

No I won't, stop acting like a crybaby.

I know what places Bon Jovi played in the eighties, anyone saying Bon Jovi were bigger in Europe in the (late) eighties is fooling himself. Before Slippery, Bon Jovi did gather a small cult following in Europe and Japan though, which was bigger than their popularity in America, despite the albums not charting over here. They headlined their own shows in theaters the size of the Beacon Theater in New York, something yet unheard of in America. Once Slippery came out all changed, and for a good 3 years Bon Jovi were the biggest act out there.

After this though, Bon Jovi was, unlike you're claiming, not selling out the smaller arena's in the nineties. Many of them were amphitheaters. Sure, the seats were all sold, but the 13.000+ tickets available for the field weren't rarely gone. Jon has even gone as far as calling one of their nineties tours the red-seat tour, simply because whenever they weren't playing an amphitheater and 15.000+ seats had to be sold they just were no longer able to.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

Great, but when did a select group become the standard for an entire continent? Btw, I know the Disney thing, South Americans are routinely voted the worst visitors, but it is hardly concrete enough for me to judge an entire continent of people.

Do they ever shut the f*ck up about the Falklands?

Not much no haha. Although I will admit it almost all from the government. The people for the most part would rather their president focused on building a good country instead of chasing a rock they will never get by force or by mind.

http://www.bonjovi-archives.com/newsignature.jpg

Inspired :)

That.

Also, if we were making judgements on entire nationalities... My experience leads me to believe that it's the attitude to going out, to experiencing entertainment as a whole that is judged completely differently in the US, it's just not as a big a deal for many. I have travelled all over Europe and the US seeing bands, watching sports and it never ceases to amaze me how Americans talk during EVERYTHING.

I sat behind two guys watching The Who in the US once and they chatted like they were at a bar... it was just another place to congregate on a Friday night for these guys.

It's just not an 'event' in the US, like it is in Europe, in my experience. In the days before you paid for a place in the pit, most of the people I know in the US still strolled in at the last possible minute before a gig. Most of the people I know in Europe used to take the day off work and queue from the crack of dawn to be at the front.

Gigs I have been to I would always get there early. Although the older I get the more turning up last minute sounds appealing. I remember many a long day waiting at stadiums and what not.

Had the same problem in Dresden, Germany 2011 - a group of people standing in front of my wife and me, talking, drinking, joking, most of the time not even looking in the direction of the stage - just annoying :(. So that's not neccessarily all-american..

I bet Dawn wasn't very happy about that.

Why oh why does this forum not have a "like" button. Well played sir.

February 19, 1993
July 1993
August 3, 1995
September 1995

I have a pretty good memory. Can't remember the exact dates on 2 of those shows, but I saw the band at an arena and 2 sheds. Don't know the exact numbers, but they were as crowded as I've ever seen them for any other show. One of the sheds, used to be called Great Woods, has a capacity of over 20,000 and I remember that one being sold out (at least the day of).

Again, not saying they're popularity didn't wane in the 90's, but I've never claimed pride given that America gave birth to bands like Nirvana and Soundgarden.

This thread gets more hilarious by the day.

Please tell me it's a joke.

Sadly, it's not. Just google Brazilian tour groups at Disney World.

BTW - I should say, as Seb pointed out, I have no idea how they act in their own country, and should not stereotype, but this type of behavior is the norm in Florida.

I'm controlling myself to not comment.

This is an example of the type of crap you see that pisses people off. And for the record, Disney reports that in the handguide given to the leaders of the groups, this crap isn't supposed to happen.


Is it a big deal? Maybe not seeing a short video of it. But we deal with that for 2 straight goddamn weeks in what is supposed to be a place of complete immersion from the outside world. Never in a million years would I dream of going to another country and subjecting my hosts with rude behavior. Show some goddamn respect.