[Rdkopper]

Originally Posted by DevilsSon

Right - I read your post twice just to make sure - and what you say is that there is no influence. Then you actually say that there is some influence in one song and one b-side. And then that I don't need to hear the influence for it to be there.

I guess Slayer is a massive influence too then. They also play power-chords. Have guitar solos. And some screaming vocals. Sounds just like a Bon Jovi song. Wait - I can't really hear the influence. But it must be there, now I learned that this is how it works. Cheers Ice! Enlightening, as usual!

You're a bitter little fella Devilson....

Maybe you should read Ice's explanation a third time because it's really not that hard to understand and quite insightful.

Here is a Hint: It has to do with playing techniques differing from sounding like an exact copy.

[Rdkopper]

Originally Posted by DevilsSon

Yes - listened to it again and you are actually right. Still - we are talking here about a b-side that I had even forgot it existed. Hardly a Bon Jovi staple. Also - not really relevant - see next points:



So - basically - we're agreeing that there isn't any Stones influence

No, not until you define influences?

[Alphavictim]

Well, you wouldn't know that BJ are big Stones fans outside of a few select tracks. The lead singer / guitar player thing would be arguable, but really, that's Zeppelin and Aerosmith just as much. They're rock band in their 50s, so you KNOW they were influenced, but it's nowhere near as obvious as with, say, Oasis.

Bon Jovi still might be influenced by the Stones, in the way they approach things, in the way they arrange stuff. The R&B influences they showed during the These Days era probably owe more to the Stones than to Motown.

But stylistically, Bon Jovi are very different. The interesting thing is, the covers they've done usually did not fumble with the arrangement. They could have done Let's Spend The Night Together, with some Wild In The Streets-style 80s keys. Instead, they do Start Me Up and act like they're a traditional rock & roll band. I guess it has a lot to do with perceived heritage. Jumping Jack Flash could have a ton of vocal harmonies and big sound in the chorus, ala Raise Your Hands. AFAIR, they don't perform it like that.

I guess the only track they gave their own sound was the Cher cover.

[DevilsSon]

Originally Posted by Alphavictim

Well, you wouldn't know that BJ are big Stones fans outside of a few select tracks. The lead singer / guitar player thing would be arguable, but really, that's Zeppelin and Aerosmith just as much. They're rock band in their 50s, so you KNOW they were influenced, but it's nowhere near as obvious as with, say, Oasis.

Yup - exactly. At the same time, based on recent interviews with Jon Bon, you'd think they were some form of later stage Rolling Stones. Then again, it was to some extent me mis-representing. I think Jon always says he loved the Stones - that's not necessarily influencing them musically. And again - repeating myself - it is fairly easy to hear some of their other influences and see how they've driven and evolved through Bon Jovi's career. Again - from the Beatles to Bruce to SSJ to Aerosmith and even Alice Cooper. Never certain about the Stones.

The R&B influences they showed during the These Days era probably owe more to the Stones than to Motown.

Agreed with this as well. In fact even heavier songs such as Hey God have an R&B feel to them which I could see stem more from the Stones than any popular heavy music at that time. But yeah - it's still limited. Yet it's probably some of the best music they have ever produced.

But stylistically, Bon Jovi are very different. The interesting thing is, the covers they've done usually did not fumble with the arrangement. They could have done Let's Spend The Night Together, with some Wild In The Streets-style 80s keys. Instead, they do Start Me Up and act like they're a traditional rock & roll band. I guess it has a lot to do with perceived heritage. Jumping Jack Flash could have a ton of vocal harmonies and big sound in the chorus, ala Raise Your Hands. AFAIR, they don't perform it like that.

I guess the only track they gave their own sound was the Cher cover.

Cher cover? And yeah, Bon Jovi don't do covers to make them their own. They just do them because of the whole 'bar band' heritage. You play covers in a bar and that's what Jovi always did too, no matter what the stage was. Even more so when they moved away from 80s metal. Which kind of leads me to another point - what about all the guys who they never claimed to have influenced them. By that I mean three bands Van Halen, Ozzy (esp. Mr. Rhoads) and Def Leppard. Hell -there's a lot more of these three acts on the first two (even SWW) albums than the Stones have ever influenced Jovi. But I guess they were too close to each other time wise for Jon to ever admit they were influenced by them.

[Alphavictim]

Originally Posted by DevilsSon

Cher cover?

Check this out:

Bon Jovi Bang Bang/Shot Through The Heart (Live...

That arrangement was later recorded by Cher I believe? Sometime during the second half of the 80s.

As far as unspoken influences go - I hear a ton of Survivor (the band) on the first two albums. There's also Aldo Nova, who even contributed to the first album.

[semigoodlookin]

Originally Posted by DevilsSon

Cher cover? And yeah, Bon Jovi don't do covers to make them their own. They just do them because of the whole 'bar band' heritage. You play covers in a bar and that's what Jovi always did too, no matter what the stage was. Even more so when they moved away from 80s metal. Which kind of leads me to another point - what about all the guys who they never claimed to have influenced them. By that I mean three bands Van Halen, Ozzy (esp. Mr. Rhoads) and Def Leppard. Hell -there's a lot more of these three acts on the first two (even SWW) albums than the Stones have ever influenced Jovi. But I guess they were too close to each other time wise for Jon to ever admit they were influenced by them.

Re the 80's band influence. I have often thought that Richie's playing in the 80's (esp live) had a touch of Randy Rhoads about it, more so than Eddie Van Halen. Although, Eddie influenced the whole damn thing, so there must have been indirect influence even if Richie wasn't an actual fan of that band.

As for the actual songs, yeah I see some Ozzy influences I suppose on the second record, although I don't think it is worn on the Jovi's sleeve. I do not see the Van Halen/Bon Jovi connection though other than they both peddled 80's rock and the already mention guitar thing. At that time Van Halen was still doing the meats and potatoes songs that just happened to have insane riffage over them. Bon Jovi always felt more polished, and never had the same lyrical slant as DLR, or even the way he would compose a melody.

I am not sure about Def Leppard because I don't listen to that band enough to comment. What is certain is that all those big 80s bands were influenced by each other, or let's say by the whole scene at that time. I don't think Jon ever thought I want to be Ozzy Osbourne in the same way he wanted to be Springsteen for example. If he happened to take influence off Ozzy, it was just because of what was around him at the time.

It's a tough one man, good thread though.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by DevilsSon

Right - I read your post twice just to make sure - and what you say is that there is no influence. Then you actually say that there is some influence in one song and one b-side. And then that I don't need to hear the influence for it to be there.

Where do I say "there is no influence"? And do you really need people to list all the songs that they think are influenced by the Stones to make you happy? You're a douchebag, but then again, it's nothing new.

I guess Slayer is a massive influence too then. They also play power-chords. Have guitar solos. And some screaming vocals. Sounds just like a Bon Jovi song. Wait - I can't really hear the influence. But it must be there, now I learned that this is how it works. Cheers Ice! Enlightening, as usual!

Slayer came after Bon Jovi, so it'd be hard for them to influence Jon. And, Slayer didn't come up with power chords nor screaming vocals. But, like usual, you don't like me and want to act like a dick. Fine by me, don't listen to me, but it doesn't change the fact that I'm right.

Ice

[Ghostorm]

Originally Posted by Iceman

Slayer came after Bon Jovi

No, Slayer came before Bon Jovi .

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by Ghostorm

No, Slayer came before Bon Jovi .

Ok, the first Slayer album was released a month before Bon Jovi. Let's then deduce that Slayer was a great influence on them, especially with power chords and screaming vocals.

Ice

[Rdkopper]

Originally Posted by Ghostorm

No, Slayer came before Bon Jovi .

Not really. They pretty much followed the same path as Bon Jovi as far as their early album releases go. The difference is, Bon Jovi's first two albums had some modest successes as far as breaking into the Billboard 200 plus they were signed by a major label. Slayer's first two albums were basically just independent at that time. They were signed by a major label in '86 and that's what put them on the map.