[CharlieShipley]

Please forgive my ignorance as I put this theory out there, but I've been sitting on it for awhile trying to come up with a succinct way to say it. Since Ive been called a "stalker" who never posts, here goes:

Richie's mentioned he's been taking lessons from Lawrence Juber (ex Wings). There's also several (myself included) of the opinion that his playing has grown sloppier over the recent years.

My theory: Richie's mentioned he's self taught. Could it be Juber has taught him things that have made him consider returning to square one? Did Juber pull a Yoda and tell him to "unlearn what you have learned?" Is he merely starting over, rather than being sloppy due to drink or whatever?

Also, someone in the Richie/Orianthi band thread, Alphavictim I believe, talked about Richie's desire to place himself into a lineage of which his music shows no evidence. His consistent refs to Page and Clapton and Hendrix, as well as his "Do you like that Joe Perry shit I did?" in the "Dig" video, coupled with his seemingly sloppy extended "jams" and wardrobe say to me that he WANTS to be in the pantheon, but has learned that he lacks/has lost the skill to do so. In his mind Clapton+Hendrix+Page+Perry+jams=Sambora. Hes starting from scratch, but trying to pretend he's not.
Sorry for being long winded. Thoughts, folks?

[Javier]

I remember him saying that he had been taking guitar lessons prior to Aftermath. After that he played a really cool acoustic version of Prayer in which he approached the solo in a totally different and cool way. But your "theory" falls short on so many levels. Richie at one time was one of the best guitar players in the world, he used to take his own solos that he recorded and take them to a whole new level live that he just doesn't bother with anymore.

Another thing is that how can you "unlearn" what you have learned?? Sure you can approach playing differently, you can start mixing different styles, different scales that you haven't approached your music with before, different techniques and so on. But to all of a sudden forget to start your solo in the right key, or going off key several times during the solo, forgetting the chords to the songs regularly, forgetting the lyrics on every song, saying you're jamming but just producing endless noise that doesn't harmonize with what the other guitar player is doing is not "unlearning what you have learned", that's just becoming complacent, lazy and just over all not caring anymore.....

[CharlieShipley]

Originally Posted by Javier

I remember him saying that he had been taking guitar lessons prior to Aftermath. After that he played a really cool acoustic version of Prayer in which he approached the solo in a totally different and cool way. But your "theory" falls short on so many levels. Richie at one time was one of the best guitar players in the world, he used to take his own solos that he recorded and take them to a whole new level live that he just doesn't bother with anymore.

Another thing is that how can you "unlearn" what you have learned?? Sure you can approach playing differently, you can start mixing different styles, different scales that you haven't approached your music with before, different techniques and so on. But to all of a sudden forget to start your solo in the right key, or going off key several times during the solo, forgetting the chords to the songs regularly, forgetting the lyrics on every song, saying you're jamming but just producing endless noise that doesn't harmonize with what the other guitar player is doing is not "unlearning what you have learned", that's just becoming complacent, lazy and just over all not caring anymore.....

Tried to get clever with the Yoda ref. I merely meant maybe Juber told him to start over and learn in a different way from the way he had been. I absolutely agree about former Richie. Was listening to "Crush Tour" and wondering what the hell happened.

Thanks Javier. Shows I was thinking too simplistically.

[Old Joysey]

Richie explained that Juber taught him finger-picking that make one guitarist sound as if there were 2. That is finger-picking a la Chet Atkins (+ his big fan Mark Knopfler) if you see what I mean ; self-taught finger-picking guitarists like Richie and most rockers do it differently.

I agree with your Yoda ref. If your want to learn proper finger-picking (or something else) you have to forget your bad habits, i.e. "unlearn" the way you used to play, yes, that's what it's called, you're learning to play in a totally different way, Javier's description is correct as well. It's very hard for him to do it so late in his life because his fingers have a 4 decade long history of moving in a certain way, they do it automatically, like his neck hand knows the position for each chord without him needing to look at the guitar neck. Playing in a brand-new way requires a lot of concentration and practice...

I don't know why his playing has degraded so much over the years but I hope it's just a phase he's going through and when he's found some sort of stability in his life he may become a gifted guitarist again (crossed fingers). Hopefully, playing with Orianthi who's on a much higher technical level will make him want to improve.

[Supersonic]

Aloha !

Originally Posted by CharlieShipley

Richie's mentioned he's been taking lessons from Lawrence Juber (ex Wings).

Considering how Richie says a tour through Europe means 4 shows, sold out theaters equal 70.000 people on a nightly basis and Orianthi being one of the best guitarists in the world it wouldn't surprise me if he's been to Lawrence's house twice for a bit of chatting about guitars, and that's it.

It'd have been nice if Richie would've learned how to play like Juber does, but he hasn't. Juber does a lot of finger picking and combines a melody line over bass lines at the same time. A song like The Answer has such things, but Richie's never been capable of playing The Answer like it's supposed to be played and always cheats his way out of it. And still ****s up the chords several times.

As for getting worse or starting from scratch: When driving, you can corner a few different ways, but if you find out which way doesn't work for you, you won't repeat it. What Richie's doing is going through the corner in the same way like usual, but gradually worse every time he takes it. That's not got much to do with guitar lessons but with lack of focus, whatever the reason may be.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

[DevilsSon]

Richie, to me, got to the point where he frankly doesn't give a ****. He's fat? So what? He swears? So what? He dates a 29 year old boy? So what? He's drunk half the time? So what? He can't remember the lyrics? So what? He can't play his own songs? So what? It's all rock 'n' roll blah blah. And hell...if you look at his "heroes", they've all been through that. Even ****in' Eric Clapton. Ok - he's reached an age where normally people grow out of that type of behaviour. To me, it seems that Richie is just finding it. Like certain people hitting puberty later. Or certain people getting a mid-life crisis with 25. Whatever it is. It's hardly got anything to do with taking guitar classes or learning any new styles, techniques or approaches. He just doesn't give a ****.

And that's fair enough. Is it a pity? Hell yes! As Javier mentioned, he was one of the world's greatest guitarists. Sense of melody, technique, tone...it all came together. On a good day he could take on Van Halen, Randy Rhoads or Eric Clapton without a problem, yet he always sounded fresh. Not even mentioning his voice or his songwriting. Ok, he's never been the greatest rhythm player and other than a handful of riffs, there isn't much. Perhaps that's what Bon Jovi have always been lacking, hence, they've never reached the status of the Stones, AC/DC, Aerosmith or Guns N' Roses....but as a player and writer - there's not many who could have competed with him. Yet he never got the recognition. Richie worked hard. Look at the transformation he went through that people forget. He was fully-fledged shredder up to New Jersey. With New Jersey he moved into completely new grounds which he took further with Stranger, Faith and These Days. Again - that is an insane transformation. I mean, in 1985-86 -87 - Richie was a METAL guitarist. He was the HARD n HEAVY in Bon Jovi. He moved to become a soulful bluesy melodic rock guitarist. And that in the most positive sense. Name ONE other player who went through that. From a TOP shredder to a TOP blues player. Not many. Really not many. And even so....did he ever make the lists? Was he ever seen as a guitar hero by the masses? Never. At this stage in his career, I feel he has given up. If that wasn't enough, what else can he do? Just **** it, play hard, party hard, and have some fun. That's what rock n roll is supposed to be about. And I feel that's what he is doing.

[CharlieShipley]

Originally Posted by DevilsSon

Richie, to me, got to the point where he frankly doesn't give a ****. He's fat? So what? He swears? So what? He dates a 29 year old boy? So what? He's drunk half the time? So what? He can't remember the lyrics? So what? He can't play his own songs? So what? It's all rock 'n' roll blah blah. And hell...if you look at his "heroes", they've all been through that. Even ****in' Eric Clapton. Ok - he's reached an age where normally people grow out of that type of behaviour. To me, it seems that Richie is just finding it. Like certain people hitting puberty later. Or certain people getting a mid-life crisis with 25. Whatever it is. It's hardly got anything to do with taking guitar classes or learning any new styles, techniques or approaches. He just doesn't give a ****.

And that's fair enough. Is it a pity? Hell yes! As Javier mentioned, he was one of the world's greatest guitarists. Sense of melody, technique, tone...it all came together. On a good day he could take on Van Halen, Randy Rhoads or Eric Clapton without a problem, yet he always sounded fresh. Not even mentioning his voice or his songwriting. Ok, he's never been the greatest rhythm player and other than a handful of riffs, there isn't much. Perhaps that's what Bon Jovi have always been lacking, hence, they've never reached the status of the Stones, AC/DC, Aerosmith or Guns N' Roses....but as a player and writer - there's not many who could have competed with him. Yet he never got the recognition. Richie worked hard. Look at the transformation he went through that people forget. He was fully-fledged shredder up to New Jersey. With New Jersey he moved into completely new grounds which he took further with Stranger, Faith and These Days. Again - that is an insane transformation. I mean, in 1985-86 -87 - Richie was a METAL guitarist. He was the HARD n HEAVY in Bon Jovi. He moved to become a soulful bluesy melodic rock guitarist. And that in the most positive sense. Name ONE other player who went through that. From a TOP shredder to a TOP blues player. Not many. Really not many. And even so....did he ever make the lists? Was he ever seen as a guitar hero by the masses? Never. At this stage in his career, I feel he has given up. If that wasn't enough, what else can he do? Just **** it, play hard, party hard, and have some fun. That's what rock n roll is supposed to be about. And I feel that's what he is doing.

*mic drop*

[Old Joysey]

Amen! He's the Dean Martin of rock'n'roll!

[DevilsSon]

Originally Posted by CharlieShipley

*mic drop*

what does that mean??

[CharlieShipley]

Originally Posted by DevilsSon

what does that mean??

It's a thing in pop culture where when someone makes a huge speech/drops knowledge or makes a salient point in a very public arena they literally "drop the mic" as if to say "follow THAT bitches."
So when you see "mic drop", it's like "DAMN!" Or "Amen!"