[ticos_stick]

Originally Posted by Becky

Jon's solo work and Dave's solo work show that they're both quite capable of making magic without Richie.

I'm thinking that if Jon has to write an album without Richie it might be the kick in the ass he needs to write some really great songs again. Look at the Circle... Richie co-wrote every or almost every song on it and it's mostly crap (a few standout songs, but not a great collection). They touted that as a "Jon and Richie" album big time. I haven't listened to it since a few months after it came out. Every once in a while a song will pop up on my I-pod and I'll listen to a minute or so and have to hit skip.

Richie leaving might be the best thing to happen to Jon as a songwriter. Maybe he'll be out to prove himself capable of standing alone again like he was when he wrote Blaze of Glory. I'm all for that.

Didn't Jon write most of WAN on his own though?

I have no doubt Jon is a really good song writer and if he throws off the It's My Life style inspirational bullshit then he might write good stuff again.

[Becky]

I don't have access to the album to check the credits. I think Richie co-wrote about half the album and Jon had other co-writers and maybe wrote a couple by himself. Personally, I like WAN about a thousand times better than The Circle. I know a lot of people don't like it though. There are some songs on it that make me roll my eyes (the title track, Thick as Thieves) but, overall, I like it.

I honestly expect something very different from WAN if we get a Bon Jovi album without Richie or a Jon solo album though. I have nothing to base that on other than a gut feeling. I expect that if Jon does another album without Richie he will be going for something that suits him artistically like Destination Anywhere did and something to prove he's a kick-ass songwriter that doesn't need Richie. I think that they had fallen into complacency over the last few years, knowing that whatever they released would do well enough to give them an excuse to tour. Now, without Richie, Jon will want to produce the best QUALITY album he can to prove himself again. Jon's takes pride in his songwriting and he's ALWAYS said that was the thing that he enjoyed most about the creative process. I know he's got some great songs left in him. It's time he brought them to life.

Like you said, he's got to stop trying to inspire the masses with another It's My Life. He needs to write what's in his heart.

[Rdkopper]

Originally Posted by ticos_stick

Didn't Jon write most of WAN on his own though?

It's hard to say. Shanks and Falcon had a heavy hand in it

[Captain_jovi]

1. "Because We Can" Jon Bon Jovi, Richie Sambora, Billy Falcon 4:00
2. "I'm With You" Bon Jovi, John Shanks 3:44
3. "What About Now" Bon Jovi, Shanks 3:44
4. "Pictures of You" Bon Jovi, Sambora, Shanks 3:58
5. "Amen" Bon Jovi, Falcon 4:13
6. "That's What the Water Made Me" Bon Jovi, Falcon 4:25
7. "What's Left of Me" Bon Jovi, Sambora, Falcon 4:35
8. "Army of One" Bon Jovi, Sambora, Desmond Child 4:35
9. "Thick as Thieves" Bon Jovi, Sambora, Shanks 4:58
10. "Beautiful World" Bon Jovi, Falcon 3:49
11. "Room at the End of the World" Bon Jovi, Shanks 5:03
12. "The Fighter" Jon Bon Jovi

I wouldn't go as far to say as Shanks and Falcon wrote more than Jon did, there are traces of Jon's writing style all over each song, common turns of phrase, etc.

[Alphavictim]

True enough, but Shanks is a professional writer. I suppose he knows how to write in a style that suits a band.

[Captain_jovi]

Originally Posted by Alphavictim

True enough, but Shanks is a professional writer. I suppose he knows how to write in a style that suits a band.

Absolutely but....the idea of Shanks writing the bulk of the songs on his own to give to Jon just doesn't compute to me. That and he's only co-writing 5 songs on the album, LESS than half of it. Shanks at 5, Falcon at 5, Sambora at 5. I would have loved to have seen the writing process for this album for sure.

[Rdkopper]

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi

Absolutely but....the idea of Shanks writing the bulk of the songs on his own to give to Jon just doesn't compute to me. That and he's only co-writing 5 songs on the album, LESS than half of it. Shanks at 5, Falcon at 5, Sambora at 5. I would have loved to have seen the writing process for this album for sure.

I think the 5 Richie songs are a little fabricated and minimal.

[Alphavictim]

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi

Absolutely but....the idea of Shanks writing the bulk of the songs on his own to give to Jon just doesn't compute to me.

I'm sure Jon had input, but whether these songs originated from him or Shanks or Billy Falcon we don't know. And to me, it's a hell of a huge difference if you leave your fingerprints all over a song draft or if you write that draft yourself and have somebody else help you refine it.

I've said it before, but give

this song

a slightly different production and delivery and you've got a track that would've fit on HAND just fine.

So, who knows. Shanks might have just contributed, or he might have had whole sets of parts lying around. It's not like the guy is a shitty writer, I just don't like his production sounds. He co-wrote what is easily the best track on the current Goo Goo Dolls album and played all the guitars on it too - John Recznik didn't play guitar on that track at all. Too bad BJ don't give specific track credits, as to who played what.

[Captain_jovi]

Originally Posted by Alphavictim

I'm sure Jon had input, but whether these songs originated from him or Shanks or Billy Falcon we don't know. And to me, it's a hell of a huge difference if you leave your fingerprints all over a song draft or if you write that draft yourself and have somebody else help you refine it.

I've said it before, but give this song a slightly different production and delivery and you've got a track that would've fit on HAND just fine.

So, who knows. Shanks might have just contributed, or he might have had whole sets of parts lying around. It's not like the guy is a shitty writer, I just don't like his production sounds. He co-wrote what is easily the best track on the current Goo Goo Dolls album and played all the guitars on it too - John Recznik didn't play guitar on that track at all. Too bad BJ don't give specific track credits, as to who played what.

I never really thought of it that way. Good points.

Oh god I can only imagine if they were transparent with credits we probably wouldn't have the Hugh/Alec fiasco.

[faith1985]

Originally Posted by Becky

I honestly expect something very different from WAN if we get a Bon Jovi album without Richie or a Jon solo album though. I have nothing to base that on other than a gut feeling. I expect that if Jon does another album without Richie he will be going for something that suits him artistically like Destination Anywhere did and something to prove he's a kick-ass songwriter that doesn't need Richie. I think that they had fallen into complacency over the last few years, knowing that whatever they released would do well enough to give them an excuse to tour. Now, without Richie, Jon will want to produce the best QUALITY album he can to prove himself again. Jon's takes pride in his songwriting and he's ALWAYS said that was the thing that he enjoyed most about the creative process. I know he's got some great songs left in him. It's time he brought them to life.

Like you said, he's got to stop trying to inspire the masses with another It's My Life. He needs to write what's in his heart.

That is one possible outcome and I wish you were right. The second one is that it gets worse from here on and that Jon doesn't go out of his comfort zone enough, because he is scared or lazy.

I hope Jon gets hisp passion for music back and they put out an album they really like (and we too, of course)