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Songwriting 1982 - 1985

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  #11  
Old 01-28-2015, 05:46 PM
Alphavictim Alphavictim is offline
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Originally Posted by Becky View Post
Am I going to get skewered for saying this? I imagine it's possible they were "encouraged" to aim for a certain type of sound to be marketed for a certain type of audience and get on MTV and radio at the time. I think they went with their heavier stuff to try to establish themselves with contemporaries in the vein of Motley Crue and Whitesnake.
Whitesnake may have existed in 1984, however, they were hardly the juggernaut you probably associate them with.

Either way, that's pretty much what I meant before - the band did what sold well at the time.
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  #12  
Old 01-29-2015, 12:04 AM
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Yeah - could well be. Having said that, in 1983 - being more Journey than Motley Crue was certainly the likelier path to success.
It's strange because they were really good at rocking hard. I guess the tours with the Scorps and Kiss helped them accelerate the learning curve....still. I can't imagine how one can shift from Hollywood Dreams to Hardest Part is the Night within just a few months and yet be as good at it. Or Richie Sambora turn from whatever he was doing into the shredder he was around 1985. It's a very abrupt and interesting shift in Bon Jovi's music. For me it's actually the most significant shift in their career - the stuff from pre-Bon Jovi to the first two records. Then it came back and they found a middle ground, evolved further and peaked with These Days...but even so. The difference between 7800 and These Days is for me a lot less stark than the difference between The Powerstation Years stuff and 7800.
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Old 01-29-2015, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by DevilsSon View Post
Yeah - could well be. Having said that, in 1983 - being more Journey than Motley Crue was certainly the likelier path to success.

Great points, and your other post too. However, while Motley was certainly not the band to try to be like at that point, that kind of rock/metal/pop (whatever you call it) was slowly making its mark. Quiet Riot were big then, Ozzy was making a mark, at least on the road, and of course Van Halen were in the midst of their classic era. For me, Bon Jovi's music is much closer to those bands at that time than it was to anything Motley Crue or indeed Journey was doing.

Anyway, seeing you describe it as near powermetal is somethng I had never considered, but am certainly doing so now. I haven't listened to 7800 for sometime, but will have to get back to it because now I am hearing it all power metal and stuff. Of course, that was before powermetal was really a thing.
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Old 01-29-2015, 01:35 AM
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Great Topic:

If you discovered these albums in more recent times, you can't appreciate it in the same light as someone who grew up during that time period. Once Slippery broke and made it big, there was nothing left after you played out those quick 10 songs. Before New Jersey, you had no choice but to go back to the first two albums and in 1987, those songs were not too far off from the current music scene. They were our B-Sides, Box Set, Demos to Slippery. That's how we viewed them. They weren't as great as the songs on Slippery but they were still pretty darn good and enjoyable.

Fahrenheit is such an underated album in my opinion. Yeah, the production was weird but Jon's voice alone makes up for that. Silent Night is the first of the classic Jovi ballad, there are also some great guitar riffs, and the album contains some really get lyrical hooks.... I love lyrics like "You're Just a Pawn in a Losing Game"

The album is definitely dated, unlike the other albums, but it wasn't bad for 1985 either. Bands like Ratt, Quiet Riot, and Motley were starting to pave the way for Glam Metal so this album wasn't too far off.

Back in the 80's and even early 90's, most bands had a few albums out before making it big. That was the norm. It was about creating a name for yourself and touring like crazy to create that following, unlike today where the record companies control all that... So it didn't bomb because it sucked. It just wasn't ready to part of that evolutionary cycle yet. The record company did a horrible job promoting it too.

It's obvious why Jon hates that time period. He was rushed into an album, the record company controlled most of it including the rights I'm sure, and Jon didn't have the overall control that he wanted. They made him make mini movies for each video.

More demos do exist as Jon noted in the Box Set DVD and I'm sure it was painful for him to be pressured into including We Rule The Night by Obie.

For me, those two albums are more Bon Jovi then anything I've heard since 1995. Even though I enjoy the DA album and IML the song, it's still not as Bon Jovi as those first two albums. I'd love to get more Demos from those time periods including more Power Station recordings.
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Old 01-29-2015, 02:09 AM
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For the record, I picked those two bands just because I knew they existed prior to Bon Jovi. I was a mere CHILD when those first few albums came out and my parents didn't allow me to listen to rock radio and we only had 3 TV Stations--on a good day--none of which were MTV. I didn't experience what was on the radio or MTV in the early 80's.

Here's a little bit of Bon Jovi trivia from my life. My friends used to go around singing "Bad Name" and teased me because I didn't know it. They were actually quite mean about it. So I asked my parents for a radio so I could hear that song and learn it so I could sing it with them. Yep, Bon Jovi is the reason I got my first stereo! I didn't have MTV until I went to college and, by then, it sucked.
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  #16  
Old 02-01-2015, 11:59 AM
jovifan93 jovifan93 is offline
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My two cents on this: I've (sadly in part) come to realize that Bon Jovi always went for the sound that was hip at the time they made their records, even if Jon adamantly denies it (as well as confirm it by saying they want to stay relevant with what they do).

The only slight exception maybe Keep The Faith, but overall I think that's what they always did - take what's popular and try to make it their own (at which they mostly succeeded IMHO).

I wouldn't read too much into "why is this album heavier" or "why is WAN so pop". It's just Jon chasing fads...
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  #17  
Old 02-01-2015, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jovifan93 View Post
My two cents on this: I've (sadly in part) come to realize that Bon Jovi always went for the sound that was hip at the time they made their records, even if Jon adamantly denies it (as well as confirm it by saying they want to stay relevant with what they do).

The only slight exception maybe Keep The Faith, but overall I think that's what they always did - take what's popular and try to make it their own (at which they mostly succeeded IMHO).

I wouldn't read too much into "why is this album heavier" or "why is WAN so pop". It's just Jon chasing fads...
The key to Bon Jovi's longevity is the fact that they could change with the times by following trends however keeping their sound at the same time. It's a tricky balance that they learned to master. Probably the reason why they change producers more often than any other change within.

They mastered it in the 90's. BOR is the perfect example of that. It's an 80's song with a 90's production. IML is another big example of that.

Unfortunately, just like everything else that happened in the last 10 years, they've gotten a little off balance with the "times" and their "sound". The times are dominating their sound and that's why a new producer is in order. Jon also needs to get his head out of his ass by taking more control.
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  #18  
Old 02-01-2015, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Rdkopper View Post
The key to Bon Jovi's longevity is the fact that they could change with the times by following trends however keeping their sound at the same time. It's a tricky balance that they learned to master. Probably the reason why they change producers more often than any other change within.

They mastered it in the 90's. BOR is the perfect example of that. It's an 80's song with a 90's production. IML is another big example of that.

Unfortunately, just like everything else that happened in the last 10 years, they've gotten a little off balance with the "times" and their "sound". The times are dominating their sound and that's why a new producer is in order. Jon also needs to get his head out of his ass by taking more control.
I agree with it all by the last part. To say he has no control implies that someone else is controlling the show and I just don't think that's the case. I think he's just not showcasing the artist within and letting easy lyrics and fad production make it to the final product.
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