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Continued Discussion of Richie Drama

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  #21  
Old 09-05-2015, 08:07 AM
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nickolai nickolai is offline
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Originally Posted by JackieBlue View Post
The only conclusion I can draw from that is that you must also question the common sense of everyone who has said, in one way or another, that "it's just not Bon Jovi without Richie" because he only said what a number of people think. And that number includes not only quite a few of the fans on this board, but many of the people who reviewed their shows.

Bottom line: Just because you disagree with people's behavior - especially when you have no way of knowing their motivation - doesn't mean they're stupid. It only means that, just possibly, you are jumping to conclusions.




No, we don't know either of those things. We can only assume.




Well, then here's another lesson for you: There's no way I could know that you were referring to the article because, just like you, I only know what I read. And I came to the wrong conclusion because I incorrectly assumed that I knew what you were thinking and why you posted what you posted.

See how easily that can happen?

Mwahhhh!



Well, gee Sebastiaan, when you put it that way... it becomes painfully clear that, in this particular situation, you don't have a clue in hell about the point I was making.

First, I've read a lot more about what a great liability Richie was on the last 4 tours since April 2013, than I ever read while those tours were going on, especially from you. In fact, IIRC, your opinion then was typically that it was Jon's lack of interest, declining vocal abilities, boring setlists, or whatever other burr had gotten under your saddle at the time that presented the biggest liability.

It's only been since Richie disappointed the fans that such a glaring spotlight has been focused on the insufferable ineptitude you and others apparently think he demonstrated during those tours. Keep in mind, too, that the fans' beef with Richie didn't come from his action as much it did from the fact that since they didn't know his reason(s), they assumed he didn't have one that was good enough to justify what he did. Many fans said it would have been okay if he had done it for the "right" reason.

Second, there are many people in this world who have all of the same "inabilities" you listed, but that doesn't prove that they're stupid. Some, in fact, are quite brilliant!

As for your parting shot, if you're referring to me, let me remind you that at no point in that post, or any other that I can recall, have I defended Richie's choice(s). I've never said that it was right for him to walk out on the tour; just that I believed there must be a good reason why he did it.

The only thing I've defended, from day one, is my opinion that people judge unfairly when they do so without having all the facts, which we just don't have in this situation and probably never will have. My opinion is one you apparently don't share, which is fine; but it's really not necessary to show your own "inability" to interpret a simple post in order to prove it.
His Dad passed away in 2006 and the tour continued. But yet he missed his daughter (HIS WORDS) and he walked out on a commitment letting a lot of fans down. No logic and 100% inexcusable. He had an opportunity before the tour was put together to bail out and didn't.
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  #22  
Old 09-05-2015, 08:14 AM
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Can you elaborate? Where did you hear that? Or is it your assumption?
Did Richie tweet this? I'm sure he did
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  #23  
Old 09-05-2015, 08:29 AM
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I cant beleive this topic is still being discussed ! Jesus christ ...
Because people are still deluded and actually are comfortable by it. I'll never forgive the c**t. I bought golden circle at Villa Park, UK (the home of my favourite football team). Its my 2 biggest passions in life - Aston Villa FC and Bon Jovi coming together under one roof. For me it doesn't get much better. And Richie pretty much ****ed it. Yes I had an opportunity for a refund but in a weird way I felt loyalty to the rest of the band, like others, to show solidarity and support. So that is why I feel like I needed an explanation. As a paying fan - it's not a lot to ask.

And that's just one story. I bet hundreds and thousands of other fans have their reasoning too.
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  #24  
Old 09-06-2015, 07:15 AM
JackieBlue JackieBlue is offline
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Originally Posted by nickolai View Post
His Dad passed away in 2006 and the tour continued. But yet he missed his daughter (HIS WORDS) and he walked out on a commitment letting a lot of fans down. No logic and 100% inexcusable.
Actually his wife filed for divorce in Feb 2006 and he also learned that his dad had cancer in 2006, around June, I think. It was the following year when his divorce became final and his dad died, almost within the same week in April 2007. But I'm glad you brought it up because among Seb's reasons why (at least since April 2013) anyone can see what a liability Richie has been, all but one occurred during the HAND tour (November 2005 - July 2006) or in June 2007 less than 6 weeks after his Dad's death. A thinking person might wonder if there could possibly be a connection between the instability of Richie's performances and that particular timeframe. Hmmm...

But you are right. He DID carry on. Which is exactly why I say it makes no sense now and why I don't think we have the whole story about this situation (and therefore, IMO, can’t possibly know if it’s excusable or not). I know that Richie said, in his own words, that he missed his daughter. He also said that he needed a break. He also said that the band was going in a different direction. None of those things is necessarily a lie. But let’s say I go to the store to buy a week’s worth of groceries and my list included apples and pasta. When someone asks what I bought I can truthfully answer, “Apples and pasta.” It’s not a lie; but it doesn’t explain what’s in the other 8 bags I brought home either. So it doesn’t tell the whole story.

There were too many partial reasons given (reasons that wouldn't air Jovi's dirty laundry, if that’s what the primary reason is – and I’m not saying it is, but it could be). But none of them explains why he would leave in the middle of a tour and none of them have anything to do with the FIRST answer he gave, which was "Jon and I just aren't happening right now. But a band's like family and family business stays in the family." That, not any delusion, is what makes me think that something was going on behind the scenes that they aren't going to talk about. It has nothing to do with whether I like Richie or not. It's what makes the most sense when you look at the whole picture with eyes that aren't clouded by anger or suspicion.

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Originally Posted by nickolai View Post
He had an opportunity before the tour was put together to bail out and didn't.
Apparently, he didn't want to give up his rightful place in a band that he helped build; and going on tour, against his better judgment, was the only choice he was given. Or maybe something happened AFTER the tour started.

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Originally Posted by nickolai View Post
Did Richie tweet this? I'm sure he did
I'm pretty sure that he did NOT tweet this. I don't think he said it either. I think it's another example of Seb's faulty memory or revisionist history like the 2010 leg of The Circle Tour that Richie allegedly dropped off of. Because when he was asked about Hyde Park (which was after South Africa and was at the very end of the EU leg), he said, "No, that would be too soon.” Then when the reporter pressed further by suggesting September, Richie said, "Maybe... that might be good." And when the press incorrectly reported that he had said he WOULD be back in September he clarified with a tweet the next day saying that it wasn't definite, he had only said it was possible he could return by September.

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Originally Posted by nickolai View Post
Because people are still deluded and actually are comfortable by it.
Wrong. I'm not in the least “deluded”. I KNOW that we probably don’t have the whole story! LOL

I am also completely aware that it could very well be true that Richie underwent a total personality change and turned his back on the fans, the band, his own personal work ethic, and walked away for no reason at all. But just because it COULD be true doesn't necessarily mean that it IS. Please explain to me what is delusional about recognizing that we don't know the full story of what happened.

IMO, the "deluded" ones are those who take a little bit of this and a little bit of that and presume that THEY KNOW what happened. Then they can come up with the scenario that best justifies their continued scorn, while they totally disregard what we DO know about BJ's history of keeping any ugliness out of the public eye.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickolai View Post
I'll never forgive the c**t. I bought golden circle at Villa Park, UK (the home of my favourite football team). Its my 2 biggest passions in life - Aston Villa FC and Bon Jovi coming together under one roof. For me it doesn't get much better. And Richie pretty much ****ed it. Yes I had an opportunity for a refund but in a weird way I felt loyalty to the rest of the band, like others, to show solidarity and support. So that is why I feel like I needed an explanation. As a paying fan - it's not a lot to ask…And that's just one story. I bet hundreds and thousands of other fans have their reasoning too.
Man, that sucks; and I'm truly sorry that you were disappointed. I can totally understand why you're angry and why you wanted an explanation. And if you choose to never forgive Richie, that is certainly within your rights. Just as it is within my rights to voice an opinion about what I see as the unfairness of judging without the whole story. And as long as people continue to do that, I will propably continue to exercise my right to object.

Neither your anger nor your unwillingness to forgive Richie changes the fact that we may never know if we have the real reason(s) why he left mid-tour. And they don't change my opinion that it's unfair to judge him without knowing what those reasons are. I am not "deluded" simply because you're angry or because I disagree with you (or with other people who made up their minds before ANY reasons were given and are now re-writing history to conform to the premature assumptions they made).

Sorry, but those are actual facts with no delusion to create any haziness for anyone.
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  #25  
Old 09-09-2015, 08:15 PM
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Richie's always been my hero alongside Jon, and the two of them together have that creative spark that on any given day, makes them the best band in the world. I'm no fan of Richie's solo work, but what he brought to Bon Jovi alongside Jon, is something special. Even though Richie's been piss drunk at shows, his guitar playing erratic, his off-tour life something that just makes you blink in a mystified manner - he has the ability to be a genius at what he does. Without it, Bon Jovi can still be a really, really good band, but I don't know if they can ever be great. I'd love for Jon and whatever guitarists he has to prove me wrong on that though.

That being said - whatever his reasons were for walking off the tour, and Jackie I'm sorry but I don't think there's any great conspiracy here, Richie just didn't want to go to work - because he did that, mid-tour, he doesn't deserve to be in the band and it doesn't sound like he wants to be anyway.

So I'm pretty much over Richie. If there's ever a way he can come back with any dignity, and I don't know if that's possible, then great but otherwise I'm happy to see where the band goes from here - they might not be great, but they could still be really ****ing good.
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