Richie Sambora

semigoodlooking · #**1211** 04-30-2024, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobi is an animal

I think if someone comes up with a riff that drives the song they should be given a credit as it's words and music that receive a credit. I don't think a guitar solo deserves a songwriting credit though as the song can exist without the solo. If David Bryan came up with that keyboard riff for Runaway he should be given a writing credit. who is this George Karak guy and how much of it was him. Who really knows anything for sure, I've heard stories of jon and richie sifting through boxes of tapes and stealing ideas. Bands like Poison or Van Halen would just list all 4 members as the writers. Ozzy was given sole credit for writing the Bark At The Moon album. With the Blaze album there isn't any real riffs that drive that album, it's mostly accoustic with jon's melodies. Blaze has a cool intro but the song could exist with out it. A song like Enter Sandman couldn't exist without that main driving riff.

90% of all riffs drive the song. Music in terms of Music and Lyrics means the underlying musical structure of the song, not the embellishment. I am not necessarily disagreeing with the idea, but I am not sure I agree with it either. I think different approaches work and are legitimate.

Alphavictim · #**1212** 04-30-2024, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinny

Not in Bon Jovi land. In my opinion Richie should absolutely get a writing credit for Dry County. David also said that he came up with the Runaway keyboard riff and that would have gained him a writing credit too in some bands, as it should.

David wrote the riff before he was in the band?

Quote:

Originally Posted by semigoodlooking

Does the creator of the riff/solo get a writing credit?

Riff yes, solo no.

Captain_jovi · #**1213** 04-30-2024, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alphavictim

David wrote the riff before he was in the band?

That's what he says in the doc, yup.

tobi is an animal · #**1214** 04-30-2024, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semigoodlooking

90% of all riffs drive the song. Music in terms of Music and Lyrics means the underlying musical structure of the song, not the embellishment. I am not necessarily disagreeing with the idea, but I am not sure I agree with it either. I think different approaches work and are legitimate.

yea but not all songs or albums are riff driven, as I said blaze of glory isn't a riff driven album. Kirk deserves a writing credit for the riff in sandman, aldo doesn't deserve a writing credit for the intro to blaze. kirk's riff is key to the structure of sandman and aldo's intro isn't key to the structure of blaze.

Thinny · #**1215** 04-30-2024, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobi is an animal

yea but not all songs or albums are riff driven, as I said blaze of glory isn't a riff driven album. Kirk deserves a writing credit for the riff in sandman, aldo doesn't deserve a writing credit for the intro to blaze. kirk's riff is key to the structure of sandman and aldo's intro isn't key to the structure of blaze.

I'd disagree. I think the Riff to Blaze is very much integral. There's no way that you could say that the Riff to Wanted wasn't a massive part of the song, and Blaze is structured the same way...

bonjovi_cro · #**1216** 04-30-2024, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinny

I'd disagree. I think the Riff to Blaze is very much integral. There's no way that you could say that the Riff to Wanted wasn't a massive part of the song, and Blaze is structured the same way...

It is integral. But to be honest, if I'm writing and finish Wanted alone, and then comes guitarist and puts iconic intro riff and iconic guitar solo, I don't think I'd give him songwriting credits. But if he sits with me, and alters melodic line of 2nd verse and writes chords for bridge and idea for outro, I'll give him credits. Even though for making song stand out, his arrangement work was more important.

Similarly, without killer bass line (and talkbox), Prayer is not a global hit in my eyes, but a B-track left out of SWW. Still, I woudn't give Hugh those credits or Richie just for talkbox without actually doing something with structure of chords/melody/lyrics.

Thinny · #**1217** 04-30-2024, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonjovi_cro

It is integral. But to be honest, if I'm writing and finish Wanted alone, and then comes guitarist and puts iconic intro riff and iconic guitar solo, I don't think I'd give him songwriting credits.

That's just an insane perspective as far as I'm concerned. To me the songwriting is everthing. The music, the melodies the lyrics. You simple can't not credit the songwriter for that Wanted riff. It's Criminal.

Alphavictim · #**1218** 04-30-2024, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinny

That's just an insane perspective as far as I'm concerned. To me the songwriting is everthing. The music, the melodies the lyrics. You simple can't not credit the songwriter for that Wanted riff. It's Criminal.

The entire song is built around the intro lick lol

Yeah, some pretty baffling takes in this thread indeed

tobi is an animal · #**1219** 04-30-2024, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinny

I'd disagree. I think the Riff to Blaze is very much integral. There's no way that you could say that the Riff to Wanted wasn't a massive part of the song, and Blaze is structured the same way...

I think the song would still be good without it. it's the vocals that make that song for me, same as Santa Fe. I kind of see the blaze riff similar to Becks guitar solo, it enhances the song but isn't integral to the song itself. Not sure why aldo didn't get a credit on that one if it was warranted, jon and aldo wrote an album together shortly after so aldo coudln't have been to bothered by it at the time.

While with Enter Sandman that song just wouldn't be the same without Kirk's riff as it literally drives the song.

bonjovi_cro · #**1220** 04-30-2024, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinny

That's just an insane perspective as far as I'm concerned. To me the songwriting is everthing. The music, the melodies the lyrics. You simple can't not credit the songwriter for that Wanted riff. It's Criminal.

But again, me personally I can agree and see the way I described it as potentially very unfair. But it is the industry standard more often than not. Numerous bands will share arrangements credits, but not songwriting credits. Those go to the guy who brings lyrics with 4 chords. Not fair probably in the greater perspective, but it has some merits.

I did say how I would do it for the argument's sake, but I don't necessarily advocate that way, though. I'm always thinking about it, and have conflicting thoughts with my own personal situation with this.

But for the sake of argument, one can take both stances very rationally. It's not "baffling" cause there are numerous examples of it, and not always with happy and agreed and fair outcomes among band members.

Richie Sambora

General BJ Discussion