[bonjovi_cro]

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi

You can dress it up any way you want, I don't think a song llike that was aimed at the random rock fan. It's a rock/pop song aimed at a rock/pop audience and sent to rock/pop stations. Then shortly after Bounce was serviced to rock radio.

But what are you really saying here? Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to stir a fight, but do you believe in that or are you just being contrarian to what I said? I'll try to be more clear. All About Loving You is probably the most pop and gentle and "sell out" this band has ever been in its entire history. I don't consider it bad by construction. Make a memory for example is really soft and gentle, and I think it is a really good song. All about loving you would be better with more organic sound, yes, this is my take.

But to say it wasn't oriented towards me and my kind (rock music fans) is just wrong. I listen to alot of pop and indie music, I'm not just hard'n'heavy fan. That song went production-side too far (IMO) towards calculated product, and as such, it first missed it's mark (cause hits of the day went completely different direction, which in fact Shanks showed to the band ala pop punk direction), and second, it alienated fans and was pivotal in making Bounce so stark contrast album between heavy nu-metal inspired songs and this - I don't know even how to call it, it's not bubblegum production as Crush, its' just so light pop its basically alienating your normal audience. I think it went too far, otherwise it's a nice song. So I can agree with a poster that compared it to Dry County on that sense of complete opposite, and I'm saying its a pity that it went so far.

[Captain_jovi]

Originally Posted by bonjovi_cro

But what are you really saying here? Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to stir a fight, but do you believe in that or are you just being contrarian to what I said? I'll try to be more clear. All About Loving You is probably the most pop and gentle and "sell out" this band has ever been in its entire history. I don't consider it bad by construction. Make a memory for example is really soft and gentle, and I think it is a really good song. All about loving you would be better with more organic sound, yes, this is my take.

But to say it wasn't oriented towards me and my kind (rock music fans) is just wrong. I listen to alot of pop and indie music, I'm not just hard'n'heavy fan. That song went production-side too far (IMO) towards calculated product, and as such, it first missed it's mark (cause hits of the day went completely different direction, which in fact Shanks showed to the band ala pop punk direction), and second, it alienated fans and was pivotal in making Bounce so stark contrast album between heavy nu-metal inspired songs and this - I don't know even how to call it, it's not bubblegum production as Crush, its' just so light pop its basically alienating your normal audience. I think it went too far, otherwise it's a nice song. So I can agree with a poster that compared it to Dry County on that sense of complete opposite, and I'm saying its a pity that it went so far.

It might be a language barrier issue, when I said "you can dress it up any way you want" I'm saying the song arrangement. It was never meant for rock audiences, not your argument about the song.

The whole ALBUM, not just this song, was a commercialised effort to be relevant and went too far, completely agree. Some people are into it and some see right through it.

[bonjovi_cro]

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi

It might be a language barrier issue, when I said "you can dress it up any way you want" I'm saying the song arrangement. It was never meant for rock audiences, not your argument about the song.

The whole ALBUM, not just this song, was a commercialised effort to be relevant and went too far, completely agree. Some people are into it and some see right through it.

I see, agreed. Whole album does feel the least "true" from songwriter point of view. In my eyes, Jon would go that direction anyhow after IML success, but then 9/11 happened and it just forced it too much

[Supersonic]

Aloha !

Originally Posted by bonjovi_cro

In my eyes, Jon would go that direction anyhow after IML success, but then 9/11 happened and it just forced it too much

Not really. The band wrote plenty of 9/11 related material but didn't want to release a 9/11 inspired album. Or at least, that's what their original statement was.

Originally, Another Reason To Believe, Breathe and No Regrets were all supposed to end up on Bounce. Jon then turned to Andreas Carlsson instead to write different material and All About Lovin' You was a song Carlsson originally had in mind for LeAnn Rhimes but she (or her team) had rejected it. It sounds a lot more like her ballads though, it's a pretty good pop ballad.

I'm pretty confident the record company had a little say in the final tracklist as a 9/11 record would've been pretty easy to sell in the USA while the rest of the world felt a lot more indifferent toward the patriotic stuff. It'd also explain how All About Lovin' You was played twice in the end, making the rumor of them not having much to do with it only stronger.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

[bonjovi_cro]

Originally Posted by Supersonic

Aloha !



Not really. The band wrote plenty of 9/11 related material but didn't want to release a 9/11 inspired album. Or at least, that's what their original statement was.

Originally, Another Reason To Believe, Breathe and No Regrets were all supposed to end up on Bounce. Jon then turned to Andreas Carlsson instead to write different material and All About Lovin' You was a song Carlsson originally had in mind for LeAnn Rhimes but she (or her team) had rejected it. It sounds a lot more like her ballads though, it's a pretty good pop ballad.

I'm pretty confident the record company had a little say in the final tracklist as a 9/11 record would've been pretty easy to sell in the USA while the rest of the world felt a lot more indifferent toward the patriotic stuff. It'd also explain how All About Lovin' You was played twice in the end, making the rumor of them not having much to do with it only stronger.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

Hmm interesting, so it was other way around (first 9/11 songs, and then different direction). I mean, it's easy to criticize from today's perspective, but that album to me would be better if it went whatever direction, but only one of those: either do 9/11 or do post-Crush bubblegum (or IML clones, but that one would get tiring very easily). Then, All About Loving You and/or Undivided would not feel out of place. But together? Really like 2 different bands playing on a compilation

Perhaps Bounce is the album where Jon's insistence of sounding as next (rock) hit backfired the most. As none of that fake nu-metal songs became hits or staples

[Thinny]

Originally Posted by bonjovi_cro

Perhaps Bounce is the album where Jon's insistence of sounding as next (rock) hit backfired the most. As none of that fake nu-metal songs became hits or staples

nu-metal? Nothing on this album sounded like Limp Bizkit or Korn. That is new metal. There was an influence of bands like Creed in places, but Creed was not nu-metal...

[bonjovi_cro]

Originally Posted by Thinny

nu-metal? Nothing on this album sounded like Limp Bizkit or Korn. That is new metal. There was an influence of bands like Creed in places, but Creed was not nu-metal...

Well, okay, I accept, I'm not well versed in those bands, even though it is my youth, probably cause I never liked it. Perhaps should have used term drop-d fad or something, cause all those bands relied heavily on fake toughness through drop-d tunings. In my eyes, Creed is nu-metal same as Jovi is metal. Barely, laughingly, but not so far away. All that post-grunge stuff was popular then, and I think Jon made a grave error to go there at all

[semigoodlooking]

Originally Posted by bonjovi_cro

Well, okay, I accept, I'm not well versed in those bands, even though it is my youth, probably cause I never liked it. Perhaps should have used term drop-d fad or something, cause all those bands relied heavily on fake toughness through drop-d tunings. In my eyes, Creed is nu-metal same as Jovi is metal. Barely, laughingly, but not so far away. All that post-grunge stuff was popular then, and I think Jon made a grave error to go there at all

I think you are just confusing genres because Creed was popular during the commercial peak of Nu Metal. Creed was part of the post grunge scene. I admit that genre itself is poorly defined but Nu Metal bands were not part of it.

In terms of Bon Jovi, it was not necessarily a mistake for Jon to lean into the commercial rock sound of the moment. He had done that from day one. Execution was the problem on Bounce. Although, I am perhaps kinder to the rockier songs on Bounce than others here. In my opinion it would get even worse on HAND, an album that is so desperate to say "look how modern and cool I am" it becomes parody.

[bonjovi_cro]

Originally Posted by semigoodlooking

I think you are just confusing genres because Creed was popular during the commercial peak of Nu Metal. Creed was part of the post grunge scene. I admit that genre itself is poorly defined but Nu Metal bands were not part of it.

In terms of Bon Jovi, it was not necessarily a mistake for Jon to lean into the commercial rock sound of the moment. He had done that from day one. Execution was the problem on Bounce. Although, I am perhaps kinder to the rockier songs on Bounce than others here. In my opinion it would get even worse on HAND, an album that is so desperate to say "look how modern and cool I am" it becomes parody.

Yeah, I think in the end personal biases play a role. HAND introduces me basically to Jovi, so I have a spot for it. But you are right, it is rather desperate in trying to sound really cool and modern. Perhaps to me HAND is more natural successor of Crush (Crush was bubblegum pop rock mostly, HAND was pop punk imitations, or what some critic said and I remembered from then: HAND is pop with hard rock flavour haha).

Bounce leans to heavy sound, which I don't have a problem, but as you say, execution is far from optimal and then one has impression that it's too far away from classic Jovi. Dichotomy between heavy and soft songs on Bounce also doesn't help, it just reminds me of calculation.

[Thinny]

Originally Posted by bonjovi_cro

Dichotomy between heavy and soft songs on Bounce also doesn't help, it just reminds me of calculation.

Yeah, I think that's the problem with Bounce. I actually quite like the record, but it can't make up it's mind whether it wants to be a modern rock album, or an acoustic/piano ballad led album. It's like two different albums mashed together.