[Captain_jovi]

Originally Posted by JackieBlue

That part was one of the things that made me think it might difficult to watch, of course; and Rosa3 saying, “I have to confess when I saw Jon pointing to Phil during his guitar solo, I don’t want to say it was a dig at Richie at all, but it was also saying…” didn’t help that feeling. In fact, it just added to the alarm bells going off in my head, as did Alphavictim’s comment: “This is pretty heavy on the band vibe, with everybody walking around. Well, I guess with Richie gone, they gotta showcase everybody.” My immediate response was: “Why? Why change things now?” Best I can remember, Jon’s been the primary, if not the sole, focus in nearly every video since what? WSYCGH?



But whether I would see the video as disrespectful, or simply as a reminder that Richie’s not a part of it, or if I'd remind myself that it’s Jon shtick to point to the guitarist (which I agree with, btw) when I actually got around to watching it, I couldn’t say. I wasn’t offering an opinion on the video itself without seeing it; I was merely expressing concerns I had after reading some of the comments.

Fair enough. I think I've gone way off topic, I honestly just wanted to delve into the issues you have with the band now. Previous videos had shots of Richie on his own, with him gone it absolutely frees up more time to fill, I don't think the band is in the wrong for having them be shots of Tico and Dave instead of 20 more shots of Jon. They're not slapping his legacy in the face, he left a big hole and this is how they want to fill it.

[JackieBlue]

Gee, guys, I just have to thank you all! I must say that my ass never looked as good in jeans as it did when y'all handed it to me on that pretty silver platter! Freakin’ amazing what a little staging can do. I may have to take it somewhere and show it off!

But before I go, there are just a few things I need to get off my chest! (Oh, and btw, anything you can do to help out there would be equally appreciated.)

Originally Posted by DestinationJovi

How ironic is it that the one giving an opinion of something she hasn't seen is also the one who has single-handedly written the most words in this thread. No one gives a crap what your three possible scenarios are Jackie. We've seen the video. We know the real outcome.

I have to agree, that’s pretty ironic. I have one tiny correction, though. I didn't give an opinion of a video I hadn't seen. I shared my reaction to comments about the video. It's a small distinction, I know.

But anyway, since you seem to be interested in numbers, I’ll share something even more ironic. Don’t worry; I’ll keep it short. (Well… short for me, that is.)

When I was writing this, there were 53 posts on this thread. 27 of those were before my first post. Of the 26 posts after that, beginning with mine, four (4) are totally unrelated to my post. (None of those were yours, btw.) Four more, including one of yours, had absolutely nothing to do with the video itself; they were just snipes about my post and the fact that I hadn’t watched it. The 18 other posts included my post and posts that were either direct responses or responses to something someone posted in reply to it. So at least it kicked off some conversations.

That doesn’t sound like “no one gives a crap” to me; but what the hell do I know? I mean, I haven't even watched the freakin' video, right?

There are a few things I don't have to see the video to know. For example, if I see a post that’s too long to hold my interest or posted by someone who annoys me, I know how to skip right over it and move on. I even know how to do that without being insulting. And I also know that when I do post something, long and wordy though it may be, I try to make sure it’s somehow related to the subject of the thread or, in this case, to the thread itself – not just a snipe at another poster. Which is more than I can say for some people.



That’s it, I believe! I think I’ll just take my pretty new “Ass on a Platter” to go, please. I need to check with Delta on some airline vouchers ... Y’all have fun while I’m gone!!

[Captmorgs]

Jon looks like he doesn't know what to with his hands in the video. Needs a white mic stand or something.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Javier]

Loved the video. I've watched it maybe 5 or 6 times. I think it represents the band extremely well and shows an optimistic point of view in hopes for the future of the band. Can't really see what people are finding negative about it....

[symbeline]

Jackie I think you should distance yourself from the band for a while. You have a very unhealthy approach right now, you need to separate your own personal feelings and beliefs and see the bigger picture. Your judgement is too clouded, I know you make an effort to see things from both sides and don't claim that Richie is just a poor little boy bullied by the big bad CEO, but it's clear that deep down you only held Jon accountant for everything that happened and as time passes all wounds heal except from that and you fail to see the only thing we know for sure: Richie didn't want to be in somebody else's band, specially not Jon Bon Jovi's. No matter what happened and how it happened, it would have happened anyway and the heartbreak would be the same.

You are being unfair to the fans who moved on. Many think that Richie was right and was wronged. They may not like how he decided to express his disenchantment, but supported his decision. But the band is bigger than Jon and Richie, that's why it hurts so much to see it broken after all these years, that's why you don't see the bigger picture. People may be on team whatever, but their love is the band and moving on and supporting their new lineup is not disrespectful to Richie, it's out of respect to the other members and their legacy. We are not brainwashed by Jon's shiny teeth I guarantee you. I still can't believe it happened and would forever miss him, a huge part of BJ disappeared when he left. But the fact remains the same, I can create similar scenarios to the ones you did in another thread a few days ago that would also make sense timeline wise and would paint Jon in a better light. We could do it forever because we'll never have the truth. It's unfair to judge the band and what they do according to your feelings, no matter how logical you think they are (I don't think Jon did the terrible things you probably believe he did, but I wouldn't bet my life on it, no matter how sure I could be according to facts, beliefs, etc.). If you can't click on a video because you are stuck in April 2nd 2013, still trying to make sense and came up with an scenario where Jon's unthinkable acts can be redeemable in your eyes so you find the closure you seem to need to enjoy the band in 2016, you need time away to rethink if Richie took away what brought you to the band.

I enjoy reading your posts even if we don't agree so I hope you read this as constructive criticism. Time away would do you good, I went from not wanting to hear anything new from the band in 2009 for a long couple of years to gradually find my way back and kind of finding my "place" as a fan. I simply wasn't ready to accept their decisions and held onto what made me love them in the 90s. I'm more cynical and bitter now that's true, but I cherish things I didn't even accept back then

[symbeline]

As for the video, meh, not terrible but nothing memorable either

Jon looks good though. Heavy editing or did he exorcize his demons with this album? He looked pretty rough in 2013, this is the healthiest he's looked in a long time

Oh and Phil X looks pretty good. Subtle addition

That's all I have

[JackieBlue]

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi

Gotcha, but why does it become a sham that they're still a band of brothers because Richie's not there? If one of the brothers wants to do his own thing why shouldn't the remainder still be a band of brothers? What would you have done in the bands case at this point for this?

(Jeez! I just went to preview and this is long even for me! Apologies in advance!!)

Matt, I absolutely want them to be a band of brothers - with or without Richie. It's not like I'm worried that they'll bond together while Richie's gone and leave "poor wittle Wichie" out of the club, if that's what you think I've been saying. Richie has nothing to do with whether the current "band of brothers" is a sham or not. How could he? He's out of the picture.

My concern springs from the fact that for 20 years or so that concept has rarely been mentioned and certainly not promoted. Nearly everything has focused on Jon. Even before the WWWB documentary, which pointed it out more clearly than any other single event I can think of.

The last time I recall it being prominent was with the KTF album cover. Which as I said was used to signify the solidarity following the split after NJ. But not long ago, Bob Rock, commented that even then, it was clear that the band dynamic had changed and the old "gang" mentality was gone.

Then they go into the next two decades and with each passing year the focus is tighter and tighter on Jon. When they got to 2009 and released the WWWB doc, it was presented like Jon was the CEO of this huge corporation and did all the work while the hired guns played tennis and hung out in bars.

Then the split occurred and one of the more believable reasons discussed as to why Richie left (besides the obvious smokescreen of Ava) was creative disagreement and lack of band input.

With WAN the general consensus seems to be that it was Shanks and Jon doing everything in the studio while the hired guns are off again on their own pursuits.

Then this new album gets some buzz and it's all about being a band again, getting back to their roots, recording in the studio together, which can't be totally true if you think about it because Jon said the album was done months before Phil-X ever stepped foot in the studio.

So how much really changed? And now we've got a new video that sounds like it's all about the gang again. Like I said earlier, if that's true and they've learned some lessons and are going old school again that's wonderful. But if it's just another "Rah Rah Siss Boom Bah!" because the fans bought it in 92, then it sucks. It's just another marketing ploy - a sham - that worked before so they're trying it again.

I'm not saying that I'm convinced that's what's happening by any means; but I could also see it as a possibility. I hope I'm way out in left field for even thinking about it and that they're truly just "starting all over again".

But when I started reading the 'gang' comments, the timing seemed awfully convenient to me. And I'm afraid if I were to watch the video right now with all this shit running around in my head I'll do the same thing I've accused others of doing for the last 3 years: just "looking" for things to justify being pissed off. And I don't want to do that.

So I'm just steering clear of it until my thoughts settle. I don't have a strong desire to see the video anyway. The creepy house is enough to scare me away. Official videos aren't my thing. I never saw the one for IML or Something for the Pain until I just happened across them in YT one day a year or so ago. It's music and lyrics for me. Right now I'm afraid I'd just nitpick it to death.

Bottom line: It's NOT a sham if they're a band of brothers because Richie's not there. Richie's not the point here, believe it or not. (Betcha never thought you'd see that coming from me, did you? I keep telling ppl I'm not as Richie-centered as they think I am!)

It's not a sham if they're a band of brothers at all. It's only a sham if they're NOT a band of brothers, but trying to promote themselves as one because they know that's what the fans believe in and that's what will "rally the troops".

Like you, I think we've focused way too much on what's behind my concerns with watching the video. I really had no idea when I posted that it would get this involved; and I don't want to be the one who's raining on everybody else's parade.

At least for the purposes of the thread let's just leave it at: Jackie Blue will watch the video when she gets her head out of the pretty "Ass on a Platter" and gets over the trip, and the Delta Airline Blues, and too many sleepless nights, and all the other noise.

I'm happy to continue the discussion if you want to, although I really don't have much to add. But if we do, I think it needs to move to PMs for the sake of the thread and the posters who are done with it. Does that work for you?

[JackieBlue]

Originally Posted by symbeline

...I enjoy reading your posts even if we don't agree so I hope you read this as constructive criticism. ...

Symbeline, I appreciate your concern; but I'm fine. I hope this doesn't seem rude; but your understanding of what I believe about the band and Jon, in particular, is so far off-base that I don't even know where to begin. I don't think Jon's a monster who did horrible things to Richie. I don't know what went down inside the band or why Richie left. I certainly don't know why he didn't finish a tour that he started. But I don't sit around and dream up shit to explain it either. I like theories, true. But my theories are all based on stuff I've gathered from the band. I don't pull stuff out of thin air.

From what you wrote, you either haven't read what I've said multiple times or you don't believe it; maybe because it doesn't fit with what you've apparently already decided I believe, despite what I say. In words of one syllable: I like Jon and Rich. I like the band then and now. I like Phil. I don't blame Jon or Rich. I don't think Jon and Rich are saints. I do think Jon spins; 'cause it's part of his job. I don't think Rich walked off on a whim. I think fans made their minds up and judged too soon. I don't know what caused the split and I don't blame at all if I can help it. It's a waste of time. But I don't like loose ends, so I try to solve things.

There it is in a nutshell. Three years of posts on one paragraph. Destination Jovi should be proud.

All I said that started this train rollin' was I didn't want to watch the video until some of the questions stop running around in my head. That's all. There's no big psychosis involved. And it certainly wasn't my intention to still be discussing what I thought was simple commentary. But ppl ask questions, so I answer.

So while I appreciate your concern; it's misplaced. But thanks for caring enough to offer the advice. It was sweet of you. And I'll make you the same offer I made Matt. If you want to continue the discussion I'll be happy to do so. But if that's the case, let's do it thru PMs because people are sick of seeing me say the same stuff over and over every time somebody responds to another post.

That goes for anyone else who might want to discuss it further.

[Rdkopper]

Anyone else get the DA feel during the beginning when Jon is driving????

[Rdkopper]

Originally Posted by JackieBlue

Apology accepted...

You're very difficult to debate with you because you have a contradicting answer to everything... I think Symbeline is correct by stating that you have a very unhealthy approach and might need to step away from the band just to clear out your thoughts so you can move forward... These discussions took place years ago and like it or hate it, it is what it is right now for most of us.

I want to live in the now and Richie has NOTHING to do with this Song, Video, or Album...