[rolo_tomachi]

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi

I'm not saying those are bad lyrics, that's not really what I'm getting at. I love a good pop song and I'm more saying people are casting stones at Jon for being the big reason the band has become poppy and it's Richie being held back from truly bringing the band to a rocking place. But those lyrics are just as generic as most things from the post 2000 Bon Jovi output.

Pop isn't necessarily part of the rock genre but the band was rock/pop for years and it turned the other way around. It's important to remember Richie was a big part of songs that just relied on cliches and easy rhymes just as Jon is.

I think Richie was agree with the direction of Jon albums until 2007. The Circle may have been hell in the studio, I'm sure there were many discursiones in the making of this album. I think Richie could have had enough about Jon work, and did want to go for other direction (Solo Album), but Jon kept pushing it. But do not think that's the only reason. I think there are many shit hidden, and both are stained.




27 Feb 2014 Melbourne

Setlist

Burn the Candle Down
Every Road Leads Home to You
Taking a Chance on the Wind
I'll Be There for You (with "Bridge over Troubled Water" snippet)
Nowadays
You Don't Wanna Know (Orianthi cover)
Wanted Dead or Alive
Voodoo Child (The Jimi Hendrix Experience cover)
Stranger in This Town

Richie Sambora Live Melbourne 27.2.2014 Espy...

Seven Years Gone
Livin' on a Prayer
Sugar Daddy
These Days

Encore:

Don't Change (INXS cover)
Its My Life

Richie Sambora It's My Life The Espy Melbourne ...

Cool!
Lay Your Hands on Me

Encore 2:

Purple Rain
(Prince cover) (with Corey Glover)



Sugar Daddy is back. Not Who Says...

[Captain_jovi]

Originally Posted by rolo_tomachi

I think Richie was agree with the direction of Jon albums until 2007. The Circle may have been hell in the studio, I'm sure there were many discursiones in the making of this album. I think Richie could have had enough about Jon work, and did want to go for other direction (Solo Album), but Jon kept pushing it. But do not think that's the only reason. I think there are many shit hidden, and both are stained.

But why is it so inconceivable that it wasn't hell in the studio for Richie since he co-wrote those songs. I can't stress enough, and I'm beating a horse now, that he's made the point that they're his songs too. So he should own up to writing greatness with Jon and writing crap with Jon. And to be honest the song writing on The Circle wasn't my problem, it was the minimalist single note echoy guitar parts. Hell or not he dropped the ball on his playing on the last few albums and you can't blame Jon for that.

[rokenrola]

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi

But why is it so inconceivable that it wasn't hell in the studio for Richie since he co-wrote those songs. I can't stress enough, and I'm beating a horse now, that he's made the point that they're his songs too. So he should own up to writing greatness with Jon and writing crap with Jon. And to be honest the song writing on The Circle wasn't my problem, it was the minimalist single note echoy guitar parts. Hell or not he dropped the ball on his playing on the last few albums and you can't blame Jon for that.

great words

[DevilsSon]

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi

Hell or not he dropped the ball on his playing on the last few albums and you can't blame Jon for that.

I agree with everything else you said but not with this last sentence.

Let me tell you why:
The company I used to work for was bought up by a much bigger corporation. The work has changed now from funky little creative projects to more serious boring repeatable stuff. I'm doing it cause I haven't' figured out what exactly else to do. My name is on all these documents that we produce, and frankly speaking, they are shit. We used to do great work earlier on but now it's this new direction that just sucks and even if I try to steer it my way, it just doesn't work. Also - I realise how I start to stagnate and haven't developed at all in areas that I used to consider core skills. And it's all due to this new vision of the company. I need to do something about it. Don't quite know what to do though. Eventually, I decide to take some time off! It took me about 2.5 years though to figure it all out.

See where this is going? Even if Richie wrote those songs, those guitar parts, etc...you're statement that 'you can't blame Jon for that' is nothing but your personal opinion. We don't know the truth, but certainly, a hypothesis saying that it's Jon's fault is not far-fetched given his whole I'm the CEO bullshit.

[Captain_jovi]

Originally Posted by DevilsSon

I agree with everything else you said but not with this last sentence.

Let me tell you why:
The company I used to work for was bought up by a much bigger corporation. The work has changed now from funky little creative projects to more serious boring repeatable stuff. I'm doing it cause I haven't' figured out what exactly else to do. My name is on all these documents that we produce, and frankly speaking, they are shit. We used to do great work earlier on but now it's this new direction that just sucks and even if I try to steer it my way, it just doesn't work. Also - I realise how I start to stagnate and haven't developed at all in areas that I used to consider core skills. And it's all due to this new vision of the company. I need to do something about it. Don't quite know what to do though. Eventually, I decide to take some time off! It took me about 2.5 years though to figure it all out.

See where this is going? Even if Richie wrote those songs, those guitar parts, etc...you're statement that 'you can't blame Jon for that' is nothing but your personal opinion. We don't know the truth, but certainly, a hypothesis saying that it's Jon's fault is not far-fetched given his whole I'm the CEO bullshit.

Fair point. I tend to go off on people for telling people it's pointless to make up their own theory and then believe it and I pretty much did that. Sure, it's entirely possible Jon dictated what parts Richie played on that album. But if that's the case then Richie has to drop saying the song are half his and he builds the songs too. He has a big stake in the songs doing well. I don't see him sitting in the studio while Jon tells him what to play.

Hell, he even said him and Shanks worked hard on getting the textures right and making the guitars sound like synths. It'd be strange for him to do all that work in the process just to give up creative freedom when playing them.

[rolo_tomachi]

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi

Fair point. I tend to go off on people for telling people it's pointless to make up their own theory and then believe it and I pretty much did that. Sure, it's entirely possible Jon dictated what parts Richie played on that album. But if that's the case then Richie has to drop saying the song are half his and he builds the songs too. He has a big stake in the songs doing well. I don't see him sitting in the studio while Jon tells him what to play.

Hell, he even said him and Shanks worked hard on getting the textures right and making the guitars sound like synths. It'd be strange for him to do all that work in the process just to give up creative freedom when playing them.

I do not say that the end result of The Circle, displeasure Richie. But I get the feeling that Jon's vision a bit limited his guitar work. What About Now, is the vision of Jon. Where the hell are the riff and guitar solos on this album??. Look at the Aftermath of Lowdown. Is a guitar work good for an album of Bon Jovi. Yeah, I know, not all songs are guitar, but they are enough for me.

An album as Aftermath with Jon's voice and a clearer production, would be a great album of the band. Jon's vision is the real problem. it should include the guys (Richie, David, Tico) in his vision, not John Shanks. The next problem is the production. With John Shanks, sounding increasingly less creative. Many albums produced by the same guy, that they kill creativity, comfort is not good.



My perfect world, an album every 5 years aprox (2018, 2024, 2030). Would be the following:

A joint vision of Jon and the band.
A new rock producer.
A radical change in the compositions completely different from the last decade.
A new look.
A shorter tour, 70 shows.

[Captain_jovi]

Originally Posted by rolo_tomachi

I do not say that the end result of The Circle, displeasure Richie. But I get the feeling that Jon's vision a bit limited his guitar work. What About Now, is the vision of Jon. Where the hell are the riff and guitar solos on this album??. Look at the Aftermath of Lowdown. Is a guitar work good for an album of Bon Jovi. Yeah, I know, not all songs are guitar, but they are enough for me.

An album as Aftermath with Jon's voice and a clearer production, would be a great album of the band. Jon's vision is the real problem. it should include the guys (Richie, David, Tico) in his vision, not John Shanks. The next problem is the production. With John Shanks, sounding increasingly less creative. Many albums produced by the same guy, that they kill creativity, comfort is not good.



My perfect world, an album every 5 years aprox (2018, 2024, 2030). Would be the following:

A joint vision of Jon and the band.
A new rock producer.
A radical change in the compositions completely different from the last decade.
A new look.
A shorter tour, 70 shows.

Your head is pretty far into the sand. You're so unwilling to accept that Richie was part of the creative process of The Circle so whatever you want to think, cool.

[golittleperson]

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi

Your head is pretty far into the sand. You're so unwilling to accept that Richie was part of the creative process of The Circle so whatever you want to think, cool.

I thought Richie was proud of Circle - or at least the PR was:
In an interview given to Rolling Stone Magazine, guitarist Richie Sambora says the album is a return to "rock and roll" and said "There’s going to be some big choruses on there.

I think he's rather eclectic, most are. This Left Feels Right was his "baby" according to the video in Vegas with the band.

[efpg0708]

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi

Your head is pretty far into the sand. You're so unwilling to accept that Richie was part of the creative process of The Circle so whatever you want to think, cool.

It's impossible to argue with him when it comes to Richie.

This idea that Jon has been holding him back is completely BS. Richie hasn't been on top os his game for a long time. I liked Aftermath when it came out, but I hardly listen to anything from it nowadays. The same happens with most songs that Bon Jovi releases today: after a listen or two, I completely drop them.

Take a look at the Any Other Day solo in Lisbon 2011. He was given some time do jam and improvise, yet he was completely lost and quickly gave up and returned to the main lick.

The same happened with his solo tour. He could not come up with anything new or fresh, instead played songs like Who Says You Can't Go Home and Don't Look Back In Anger , pretending to be Liam Gallagher. His playing was average at best.

Rolo says he is improving. I've been checking his videos of the Australian Tour and I agree with what some people here think: every time he shreds on his guitar or plays 3 or 4 notes people go nuts and say: Richie is Back.

Anyone who plays some guitar can see that he's been doing the same licks over and over again.

[semigoodlookin]

I like how Aftermath is slowly becoming a guitar driven album to some. Richie even thought it was, which to me tells me everything. He is not in the zone in a recording aspect for guitar playing, it has been drastically bad on Bon Jovi albums and Jon shouldered the blame. However, Aftermath highlights Richie´s poor guitar work more than anything Bon Jovi has done recently, simply because he was touting it has having extended solos and jamming, which lets be honest it has neither of. By the way, the end of Seven Years is not an extended solo in the slightest.

Perhaps he is getting back into the guitar player way of thinking, this mini tour of his has certainly had a ton of guitar, extended solos, and jamming, even if it has been sloppy. The reason the guitars were poor on recent Bon Jovi records was because Richie was not bringing his game. Why would Jon not include something special that had been laid down by Richie in the studio. Yeah, bin the phenomenal solo because Fast Cars is just perfect on its own.

If Jon was outright stopping him flourishing in the studio, why is Aftermath so bland from a guitarists point of view? Stranger had some magical guitar parts, and so did Undiscovered Soul in its own way, but there is nothing special on Aftermath. We were treated to the same licks endlessly though, or at least the same rehashed ideas, even on the gold standard Seven Years Gone By.

For what it´s worth, I like Aftermath, didn´t love it, but would trade over WAN easily.

Perhaps Richie´s creative process was hampered in the songwriting and not guitar. Perhaps he wanted to go deeper than some of the songs he wrote on, but followed Jon´s vision and wrote what he had to so to speak. Maybe he got tired of that, but certainly not is guitar input.