[Eveline]

Originally Posted by Rdkopper

All the above is such shit... I don't go to a show to hear excellence... I go to a show to have a good time... this isn't The X Factor singing competition. It's a rock concert... Trust me, it sucks and I'm pissed that Jon can't do what he used to but it is what it is... There is still a killer band behind him including Phil... Phil has more enthusiastic and provides more energy than Richie ever had... I know I say this all the time and I'll say it again... Jon's voice comes across much different being there live... and personally I like the new songs... I'm excited to hear them live... Jon is 55 and although there are some that could do it better at that age, there are a lot more who do it worse or can't even do it at all... I'm glad that at my age, I can still go to see Bon Jovi and walk away saying that was pretty ****ing good and I had a great time... Call me a simpleton but 70 bucks and night out isn't anything to get up in arms about...

Sent from my HTCD160LVW using Tapatalk

It's just YOUR opinion, Sir. I wouldn't call anyone's opinion "shit" because it speaks volumes not about other people but the person himself.

[Walleris]

Originally Posted by ticos_stick

So you're okay with the guitar parts and backing vocals sounding very different to the classic sound? That's something I can't get over. I suppose it's just personal taste in this case.

Is it preferable? No. I'm sure we would all prefer to have the classic line-up, in any band. But I can get over it if it still sounds good. It doesn't because of Jon, not because of the band, which to my ears sound nice with additions of Bradley and Shanks.

[Rdkopper]

Originally Posted by Eveline

It's just YOUR opinion, Sir. I wouldn't call anyone's opinion "shit" because it speaks volumes not about other people but the person himself.

It's an opinion based on facts... This is a band with almost a 35 year history... Life happens, change happens, for better or for worse... These guys are getting older... They still do it better than most, just not as good as their peak when they were young... To say I'm not going to a show because of X is stupid...

If Page and Plant reunited you ****ing go... You don't say, "Well Plant's voice isn't what it was, and they have a new drummer, and the Immigrant Song won't sound like it did in the 70's" You just ****ing go and have a good time...

[Eveline]

And what if I don't want to f***** go? If I don't think the performance is good enough to be paid for (and it's not cheap!), then I won't!

It's OK not to like something but it's not OK to say you suck just because you dare to differ. BJ IS a legend, very much to this day, but the magic is gone! Just because they've been around for many years doesn't justify the situation where 'the best' becomes 'fairly average' to say the least.

We, as fans, differ in all ways possible but we're united by the love for the Band. Yet, blind idolizing without acknowledging the obvious deteriorating of the quality of the delivered product causes unnecessary rifts among the fans. Same with this foolish side taking, while the guys themselves try to stay as loyal as possible, even if they've failed a few times when they let the emotions take over.

I know many are hurt and disappointed with RS sudden departure and bad timing but it doesn't do the man justice to say that he was anyway a mediocre guitar player and Phil X is way better and more energetic than RS. Pardon, that was one bad joke and even the so called "Jon's supporters" rarely make such bold (and untrue) statements. Phil X doesn't belong to the legendary BJ, he's a good replacement, but that's it, whether you like it or not. And I've never heard that Hugh has replaced Alec and he has done it better! Maybe because Alec was fired while Richie left on his own but that shouldn't be the case. It takes a lot of maturity to move on without bearing grudges and passing judgement, usually one-sided anyway. BJ is (was?) a band, not a lead singer with hired musicians or am I wrong? Sometimes I have such impression reading comments...

If you are so willing to accept that Jon's voice can be bad but still enjoyable then try to be as understanding when it comes to Richie's guitar skills. They're both old, for goodness sake!

And here's something to pick your spirits up

Richie, play me some polka! (Richie Sambora of...

[efpg0708]

Here's where opinions differ. Since I'm paying, I do demand excellence. Even though I like Jon, Richie, Tico, David, and Hugh, I love their SONGS, not them. I don't go to concerts just to have a good time, I go hoping to hear a good performance of songs I like, and that makes me have a good time. I've been to bad Bon Jovi gigs with some friends, and we were all bored to death. If I want to pay for something just to have a good time, I'd rather go to a nightclub.

I like the new album a lot. But I can't stand Jon's live vocals nowadays. I know that watching youtube videos is completely different than being there in person, but I was at Rock and Rio 2013, Dusseldorf 2011 and some other bad BJ gigs where I wanted to leave before the end of the show because of how bad Jon's vocals were.

[Walleris]

Originally Posted by efpg0708

Here's where opinions differ. Since I'm paying, I do demand excellence. Even though I like Jon, Richie, Tico, David, and Hugh, I love their SONGS, not them. I don't go to concerts just to have a good time, I go hoping to hear a good performance of songs I like, and that makes me have a good time. I've been to bad Bon Jovi gigs with some friends, and we were all bored to death. If I want to pay for something just to have a good time, I'd rather go to a nightclub.

I like the new album a lot. But I can't stand Jon's live vocals nowadays. I know that watching youtube videos is completely different than being there in person, but I was at Rock and Rio 2013, Dusseldorf 2011 and some other bad BJ gigs where I wanted to leave before the end of the show because of how bad Jon's vocals were.

Well said.

Just because some people don't have a high standard for the gigs they go to and the money they spend, doesn't mean that others shouldn't as well.

[DryCounty]

Originally Posted by efpg0708

I was at Rock and Rio 2013, Dusseldorf 2011 and some other bad BJ gigs where I wanted to leave before the end of the show because of how bad Jon's vocals were.

Well to be fair Jon sounded pretty damn good on the Europe leg 2011. I know Dusseldorf was a pretty weak show compared to most other shows during that leg, with a pretty horrible set list but you can't claim the vocal delivery was so bad you wanted to leave the show, or we are listening to different concerts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MqDfLuQPM4

[bonjovi90]

Originally Posted by DryCounty

Well to be fair Jon sounded pretty damn good on the Europe leg 2011. I know Dusseldorf was a pretty weak show compared to most other shows during that leg, with a pretty horrible set list but you can't claim the vocal delivery was so bad you wanted to leave the show, or we are listening to different concerts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MqDfLuQPM4

It was tough at the show, but the reason was that the vocals were partly mixed so upfront that your ears started ringing each time stretched a note. Another low point was him starting too late in songs. This happened more and more during the second half of the show and was something we weren't used to at that point. So it was quite distracting.

Getting back to the original discussion:
As of now (and having heard the Miami show) I wouldn't pay to see this band anymore either. And this has nothing to do with me not wanting to support them or being angry that Richie left. For me the weak link live is Jon. Simple as that. I enjoy the new album and the promo show in London was good, but he already had trouble with the new songs in Miami as soon as some of the older hits were mixed in.
Sure a live concert is never the same as listening to a SBD recording, but it can only cover the flaws to a certain amount. When I pay that amount of money I demand to be entertained and hear performances that take me away. It makes me sad but Jon can't deliver one of these aspects anymore. He's so occupied clinging himself to the mic trying to stay in tune that he doesn't move around at all. In 2013 I went to three shows: In Munich his voice was deteriorating midway through the show, yet he climbed the side parts of the stage and moved like crazy to keep the crowd entertained. That made up for the flaws of the band and his voice and led to an enjoyable night. In Stuttgart the crowd only was into the really big hits and Jon's struggles were obvious that night. In Cologne it was stunning, but even back then all the stars had to line up for a night like that: A setlist that was out of this world, a crowd in an excellent party mood and the giant echo of the stadium which helped him a lot.
Now you have to realize that his voice is about 50% worse than it was in May/June of 2013. I simply don't see a way how they could work an arena. To have a loud crowd drown your own vocals they need to be pumped, to get a crowd rising you need to fire up the hits, to find the hits you have to go back to the demanding older songs, to present them you'd have to able to sing them...and we're back at point one again. Furthermore he's exposed to the casual fans in bigger arenas who are used to him being able to work a crowd. 95% of the attendees only care about Jon. If he's glued to the mic and they don't even use pyrotechnics or other technical inventions to distract from it this will be coursed to fail I guess.
Maybe they'll all surprise us and pull something out of the hat that no one would've expected anymore, but after the last 4 years I simply can't see that coming.

[DryCounty]

For me Jon wasn't all that bad during the first half of 2013. It was during the autumn of 2013 things went crazy downhill. The first half of the Because We Can Tour was a little rough, but he still sounded pretty decent. I can't complain about this Always performance from Manchester 2013. But as the Europe leg ended it went from rough to horrible, and it only keeps on getting worser.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChRSPWFIruk

[Eveline]

Jon is clearly in pain when he sings...a truly sad thing to see.