[Mysterytrain]

Originally Posted by jessycardy

Great. Just great. I kind of assumed his tweet was a little dig at Bon Jovi's music or something, but now it's black on white. What the ****?!? I'm really, REALLY starting to hate this shit, I want my band back.

I do agree with this; maybe Richie's soul and artistic vision is with his solo record (and that would make sense)--but what he isn't saying (but what I'm inferring) is that his soul and artistic vision is certainly /not/ with "WAN".

I certainly hope he isn't referring to the entirety of the Bon Jovi catalog, but who knows?

I just happened to read an interview with Lou Gramm, the original singer and co-songwriter of Foreigner. As many of you probably know, he is no longer with Foreigner, and after health problems (a brain tumor that was successfully removed)--he's had a hard road trying to reclaim his voice, but seems to be improving.

Lately, he and main band songwriter Mick Jones (who have had a contentious relationship) reunited for their induction into the Songwriters' Hall of Fame. In an interview, Lou talked about his relationship to Mick:


Question: Having a volatile relationship between two very different songwriters seems to be a common thread among many big bands. Any idea why that might be?

Answer: I’ve thought about that a lot, to tell you the truth, and I don’t have a real definitive answer. I just think that, honestly, (it comes down to) ego. One thinks that they are the more important of the two and before you know it somebody’s got the upper hand and somebody’s down on the ground.

In our early years of writing together, it was just a writing team. It didn’t feel like one was the main writer and one was just being co-writer, it just felt like our objective was to write great songs.

As years went by, Mick being the founder of the band, I think he just kind of pulled rank. A writing relationship is all based on the ability to open yourself up and let your most private ideas out. I didn’t feel open enough anymore in the way I used to. At that point, the creative bond and partnership were damaged.

Instead of being a team, we were adversaries and we no longer did our best work.


Just some food for thought...

[Slakk]

Originally Posted by MrNickel

@TheRealSambora ---- 9 mins ago

"For those of you who need my artistic vision and soul.. Aftermath is a pretty accurate depiction of who I am..best work I'm my life.."

And your Artistic Vision and Soul sold 12 albums. Don't quit your day job....OOOOPS you did.

[ezearis]

Originally Posted by Mysterytrain

I do agree with this; maybe Richie's soul and artistic vision is with his solo record (and that would make sense)--but what he isn't saying (but what I'm inferring) is that his soul and artistic vision is certainly /not/ with "WAN".

I certainly hope he isn't referring to the entirety of the Bon Jovi catalog, but who knows?

I just happened to read an interview with Lou Gramm, the original singer and co-songwriter of Foreigner. As many of you probably know, he is no longer with Foreigner, and after health problems (a brain tumor that was successfully removed)--he's had a hard road trying to reclaim his voice, but seems to be improving.

Lately, he and main band songwriter Mick Jones (who have had a contentious relationship) reunited for their induction into the Songwriters' Hall of Fame. In an interview, Lou talked about his relationship to Mick:


Question: Having a volatile relationship between two very different songwriters seems to be a common thread among many big bands. Any idea why that might be?

Answer: I’ve thought about that a lot, to tell you the truth, and I don’t have a real definitive answer. I just think that, honestly, (it comes down to) ego. One thinks that they are the more important of the two and before you know it somebody’s got the upper hand and somebody’s down on the ground.

In our early years of writing together, it was just a writing team. It didn’t feel like one was the main writer and one was just being co-writer, it just felt like our objective was to write great songs.

As years went by, Mick being the founder of the band, I think he just kind of pulled rank. A writing relationship is all based on the ability to open yourself up and let your most private ideas out. I didn’t feel open enough anymore in the way I used to. At that point, the creative bond and partnership were damaged.

Instead of being a team, we were adversaries and we no longer did our best work.


Just some food for thought...

The best serious thing I've read in all this thread.

[Crushgen24/88]

Originally Posted by MrNickel

@TheRealSambora ---- 9 mins ago

"For those of you who need my artistic vision and soul.. Aftermath is a pretty accurate depiction of who I am..best work I'm my life.."

That can construed two ways: Either that Bon Jovi music doesn't represent who he really is, or (the more likely IMO) Richie responding to people who say they miss him, he's the soul of Bon Jovi, etc. Either way, it doesn't make him look good.

[Mysterytrain]

Originally Posted by Crushgen24/88

That can construed two ways: Either that Bon Jovi music doesn't represent who he really is, or (the more likely IMO) Richie responding to people who say they miss him, he's the soul of Bon Jovi, etc. Either way, it doesn't make him look good.

Or, as one of my Jovi friends pointed out when I told her about the Tweet: "I'm not sure it's conceit to respond to the fact that people miss your art in their lives."

[JoviJovi]

Originally Posted by Mysterytrain

Or, as one of my Jovi friends pointed out when I told her about the Tweet: "I'm not sure it's conceit to respond to the fact that people miss your art in their lives."

I don't think its conceit that makes it look bad. It really feels like a dig to me. Maybe Ive just had the wrong impression of Richie all these years, but he just seems to have changed, its weird really.

[jon-flp]

Sorry, but I just can't be against Jon in this time. Why? He doesn't gave me a reason for it.
We don't know the reasons (and probably never will) for all this shit, but if you compare Jon and Richie words and atittudes...

I'm very sad. Richie is my guitar hero, was my favorite member of the band...and it's hard for me to face that he's out. Very hard. He was an asshole(yeah, an asshole) in all the "contest" situation, and now he's acting like a little child...say one thing in interviews, others in twitter...why open your mounth (or fingers) to talk if you don't have anything to say?
He's not help himself. He's not help in the whole situation.

Sorry. Like I said, I'm very sad. It's just hard for me to imagine a statement like: "Richie Sambora is out of Bon Jovi." Very hard.

[Mysterytrain]

I remember when 'Aftermath' came out how Richie talked it up in interviews, said it was the most artistically-fulfilling thing he's ever done. On the "Kelly and Michael" TV show, the hosts asked him what musicians he liked performing with the most, and he said, 'These guys right here' (his solo band).

On its face, you could read Richie's latest Tweet as simply a re-statement of fact: It's not new information that he thinks 'Aftermath' is his best work as an artist. He's said that before.

As for Bon Jovi, Richie also seemed defensive in that Rumor Fix interview from a week or so ago, when asked if he was still a member of the band. He said, 'Who has writing credits on 14 albums? If I'm out of the band, it's news to me!' The fact that he mentioned the writing credits specifically in his response makes me think that this might be part of his contention with Jon (which ties in with what I was trying to get at by posting the Lou Gramm article earlier. Take out Lou Gramm, and you could theoretically have Richie (as co-songwriter) talking about Jon (as lead songwriter). We all know that Bon Jovi is run on Jon's vision. We all know Richie had fewer writing credits on 'WAN' than on any album previous. Why would it be such a stretch to think a similar creative conflict exists between Jon and Richie?

You could read both Richie's 'writing credits on 14 albums' and 'Aftermath' Tweet in the same light: As attempting to assert his place as a writer on his own terms. Surely, it's more fulfilling to write for yourself ('Aftermath') than for someone else (Bon Jovi) but Richie's contribution has been vital to the success of Bon Jovi and it's a relationship that has had its rewards: Jon and Richie are in the Songwriters Hall of Fame as a /team/. Yet, it seems 'WAN' was mostly written without input from Richie.

Richie's heart is still with 'Aftermath', obviously. If nothing else, the Tweet makes that apparent, regardless of any context regarding a supposed 'slam'.

EDIT--just something else that occurred to me: I agree that it seems as though Richie's personality has changed recently: It seems goofy, fun-loving, content-as-second-banana-and-foil-to-Jon-Richie' has been replaced by 'Assertive-perplexing-passive-aggressive-I'm-going-to-do-my-own-thing" Richie'. Whether for right or wrong (and we may never know this, either)--we do tend to make 'characters' out of our celebrities, because we do not know them personally. Chances are Richie might well be a mix of all of these things, but his 'dark side' seems more pronounced right now, and more visible to the public.

I remember a fan who said that, in an unedited version of 'WWWB' they had seen, Jon had joked with a reporter that they'd better have a plan for interviewing Richie, because if he didn't like a line of questioning, he'd walk away (the reporter decided to interview Richie on a yacht to ensure he'd stay put). At the time I heard this, it surprised me, because it didn't square with what I thought was Richie's more accessible, open and fun-loving personae. It made him appear juvenile, petulant, unwilling to be challenged, a bit of a diva.

Jon's hissy-fits onstage also point to a darker side to his personality, born out of his perfectionistic tendencies.

In short, I think that Richie's personality probably hasn't truly /changed/, but that, for whatever reason, it's been pushed to one extreme atm, and it's just one part of his character that we fans hadn't seen. Maybe he was in the same 'headspace' during the "New Jersey" fallout.

[SadieLady]

Originally Posted by Mysterytrain

...I agree that it seems as though Richie's personality has changed recently: It seems goofy, fun-loving, content-as-second-banana-and-foil-to-Jon-Richie' has been replaced by 'Assertive-perplexing-passive-aggressive-I'm-going-to-do-my-own-thing" Richie'. Whether for right or wrong (and we may never know this, either)--we do tend to make 'characters' out of our celebrities, because we do not know them personally. Chances are Richie might well be a mix of all of these things, but his 'dark side' seems more pronounced right now, and more visible to the public.

Richie has always come off the congenial, lovable, accessible, slightly goofy band member. Obviously he was and is so much more than that as a person and as a performer. But that was his role. He said himself in the documentary that he saw his job as keeping the lead singer (Jon) happy. I think that cost him big time and contributed to some extent to his alcoholism.

I really like some of the songs on Aftermath and he has a right to be proud of it. I am guessing that he wants a bigger or more acknowledged role not only as a band member and songwriter partner but as his own artist and performer. I think the band is strong enough and successful enough to incorporate some of Richie's vision/needs into the stage performance but whether Jon is strong enough to allow it is another thing entirely. When a person has a lot of power, it is hard to let go of some of it. Richie was never given the chance to incorporate some of his being into the production. And yes, I think this is deja vu from their tense relationship years ago. Whether the outcome will be the same is another thing entirely.

I want him back in the band but I wish him well regardless (as I wish the band well regardless). If it is time to leave, it is time to leave.

[Wrath Mania]

Aside from the fact that Richie's latest idiotic tweet is a transparent attempt to get Bon Jovi fans back onto his side, it's also a bit perplexing, since Aftermath is an honest-to-god shitty, uninspired effort. If this is his declaration of what he can do without Jon's considerable mediocrity holding him back, no one should be impressed.

How much longer can this sad pissing match between two washed up wanna-rockstars who sold out their artistic integrity almost twenty years ago proceed? One thing is for certain; this thread has been an absolute marvel to follow through. I have noticed at various message boards for fangroups of many different things, that once the object of fandom reaches a certain mass of shittiness, the whole thing becomes comic parody; the fun is almost in making fun of the mediocre object in question, rather than actually admiring it. Jovitalk has reached this critical mass, and honestly I think is all the better for it.