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Jovi98 · #**551** 04-28-2024, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolo_tomachi

When Jon does the guitar gesture in The Fighter, and smirks like if this wasn't so important... the guy is full of shit.

And we could also talk about Shanks that was smiling during that part were he was talking about the situation then, but everyone took it in his own way that event.

But let's say:

Someone blame John Shanks for ruin the band, but he only does its job we can't blame him, it's Jon that command the situation.

Jon likes him as productor and as studio musician...

In one interview Jon said about him as productor: "he knows what i want"

Roll · #**552** 04-28-2024, 04:30 PM

Jon partly blames himself for the Richie situation and that's unheard of before, even though Richie being Richie, it seemed like it was safe to have a backup plan.
I can't see why it's still relevant to some to keep blasting Jon. That happened 10 years ago. It's time to move on and see what the future has to offer.

JoviForever · #**553** 04-28-2024, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supersonic

Aloha !

I'm not counting time off the road. I'm counting from the moment the band played their last show up to the first point Richie was involved in writing for a subsequent album.

The Bounce tour ended in july 2003. The band had a couple of months off, worked on This Left Feels Right for a few weeks, did a promo show for the album and then did nothing until writing for HAND started in the summer of 2004. That's more than half a year off.

The first leg of the HAND tour started in november 2005, lasted for 3 months, then 3,5 weeks off, then 2,5 months of touring, 3,5 weeks off, 2 weeks of touring, a month off, 1 month of touring, 1 month off, half a month of touring and then the band were off again.

Here's Richie's "grueling" HAND tour:

Travel was usually done on the day of the show, not on seperate days, meaning for most of the days off, the days off are really days off.

In the span of nearly a year he claimed to be on the road he had nearly 4 months off. And no, there was no work done in between those legs. No rehearsing, all of that happened during soundchecks before the show.

Richie subsequently went to Nashville in september for a few weeks to work on the record and then recorded the first batch of songs somewhere from october to november. From november to early march Sambora had little to do with the recordings.

That's a month off, 2 months of work, then 3 more months off. Jon did most the work for Lost Highway in regards to promo, mixing and producing.

Also, "taking care of everyday life stuff"... like what? His entire life is run when he's away. From the moment he gets out of that plane and drives home all he needs to do is adjust to the right timezone again.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

Someone has too much time on their hands!🤣

Captain_jovi · #**554** 04-28-2024, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolo_tomachi

There was already a plan to get rid of Richie, Jon just tightened the rope a little more so it would happen sooner. .

I know we can be a bit dramatic here but.....do you really think this?

Captain_jovi · #**555** 04-28-2024, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semigoodlooking

Lots of footage from every interview that got cut, surely. Although, it would make sense for Chopra to keep the most controversial points in, so I doubt anything too heavy was cut.

Regarding Richie's schedule. Why are we arbiters of how exhausted he is, how impacted by his life weighing on his schedule he is? At the end of the day, if he says he is spent he is spent. My personal thing is he just didn't want an album cycle at that stage, for a multitude of reasons.

In the documentary, I was thinking that neither of them is necessarily lying, but they are only saying their own truth. Richie alludes to this. There is not much effort to see it from the other's side, apart from a few lines from Jon about blaming himself and Richie's eventual apology.

.

Hundred precent this, complete agreement. Being Jon's full time right hand man until Shanks was in the picture sounds exhausting. Yes, we have a rough idea of the timeline of shows and what was released but it doesn't accout for the shit worked on that never saw the light of day. ie: 2003, the Yokohama 2003 recording took time, they stopped and started an in studio acoustic record before diverting to TLFR. 2006 onward his personal life went to hell, I don't think he's int the wrong for wanting a break where he didnt' have to deal with 5 other guys while also reassembling his life. If he was promised that then he is owed that.

I think it's a slippery slope to assume there are tracks where Shanks played every guitar prior to WAN. If that was the case in 2005-2007, 2012 wouldnt' haver affected Richie as much. Shanks has full on told people he did the banjo sounding lick on Lost Highway so you know he is on the album but I don't for a second think there are songs that are just Shanks.

rolo_tomachi · #**556** 04-28-2024, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi

I think it's a slippery slope to assume there are tracks where Shanks played every guitar prior to WAN. If that was the case in 2005-2007, 2012 wouldnt' haver affected Richie as much. Shanks has full on told people he did the banjo sounding lick on Lost Highway so you know he is on the album but I don't for a second think there are songs that are just Shanks.

Here's the thing, they've been doing it for too long, and Richie has had enough. I'm sure Richie had already discussed this type of thing in the past, JBJ and J Shanks knew it for sure, they knew that these types of decisions could affect the working dynamic with Richie.

I never liked that they brought Bobby in for HAND. Yes, the idea was great, because he could fill in more sound without having to use samples, but there were other ways, Jon could have played with his electric guitar and filled in those gaps.

I think that as soon as they stopped being a band of 5 and John Shanks started filling in Richie's parts in the studio, that bad seed was planted. Over time it only grew until it was too obvious. This ruined Richie's game over the years, and it didn't help that Bobby took over some of the guitar solos.

Let's be honest, we didn't need a second guitarist. Post-2000 albums increasingly lack guitars.

Jovi98 · #**557** 04-28-2024, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolo_tomachi

Here's the thing, they've been doing it for too long, and Richie has had enough. I'm sure Richie had already discussed this type of thing in the past, JBJ and J Shanks knew it for sure, they knew that these types of decisions could affect the working dynamic with Richie.

I never liked that they brought Bobby in for HAND. Yes, the idea was great, because he could fill in more sound without having to use samples, but there were other ways, Jon could have played with his electric guitar and filled in those gaps.

I think that as soon as they stopped being a band of 5 and John Shanks started filling in Richie's parts in the studio, that bad seed was planted. Over time it only grew until it was too obvious. This ruined Richie's game over the years, and it didn't help that Bobby took over some of the guitar solos.

Let's be honest, we didn't need a second guitarist. Post-2000 albums increasingly lack guitars.

Bobby was also in the 2004 boxset sessions to finish at least one song "I Get A Rush".

BD135 · #**558** 04-28-2024, 05:25 PM

It's still on Jon's shoulders at the end of the day. Shanks isn't involved without his support. Sounds like Jon tried to be strict with Richie by making it clear they would do the work if he was late or not there on a certain day. WAN is bland and you can hear Richie's influence diminished as compared to The Circle.

rolo_tomachi · #**559** 04-28-2024, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jovi98

Bobby was also in the 2004 boxset sessions to finish at least one song "I Get A Rush".

If it's an unusual project, that's fine. But if we're talking about a new album... damn, Bon Jovi were a band of 5, like U2 or Metallica are a band of 4. By changing that, we lost an energy and a speed. Since then the shows are not so visceral, they have not had that dirty and at the same time intense thing. Since then it feels safer and more boring. I never liked that safety net, that nervous and dangerous thing was lost.

I think if they were 5, they would have had to concentrate more, I think Richie wouldn't have let his guard down so much, and he wouldn't have lost focus so much, who knows. I liked that work dynamic better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BD135

It's still on Jon's shoulders at the end of the day. Shanks isn't involved without his support. Sounds like Jon tried to be strict with Richie by making it clear they would do the work if he was late or not there on a certain day. WAN is bland and you can hear Richie's influence diminished as compared to The Circle.

I also don't agree with that work dynamic. If Jon does that with every member, then he shouldn't fill his mouth with loyalty, since he isn't respecting the task of his bandmates. I don't buy Jon's cheap philosophy.

If one member late, he's late, you can always be angry with him, but looking for a substitute to do his part of the work is crossing a much more dangerous line than a delay in the recording process of a album. Real bands don't cross that line.

richiefan95 · #**560** 04-28-2024, 07:39 PM

In hindsight I wonder now how it really was behind the scenes when he broke his shoulder during the hand tour and contiued the tour while drinking and having to take a lot of pain killers.
I would assume Richie maybe already could have felt that this could be an opportunity for Shanks to reduce his influence on the band.

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